Another mass shooting

Robert

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Not necessarily.
If it is always outlandish then yes, necessarily.
You said "putting words into people's mouths is always outlandish."
Of course, I disagree.
If I take "put words into people's mouths" to mean "assume they mean something other than their literal words" then, by such logic, even that assumption is outlandish.
Unless you didn't really mean always but then it would be outlandish to assume that too, eh?

You are reading it a certain way because of what you believe about Trump, not because of what Trump actually is saying.

Yes and no.

Of course my opinion of what Trump says is coloured by my opinion of Trump.
The same also applies to your opinion of what Trump says.

On the other hand, the implication here (outlandish?) is that I wouldn't think bad of these words had someone other than Trump uttered them. This is not the case.
Had any previous president you care to mention posted the second of these tweets in the hours after such a tragedy, I would describe it in the same way because, in the context of what had just happened, the words themselves appear crass, insensitive and open to interpretation of victim blaming. This is the case regardless of the person writing them.

 

Robert

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Reminded me of this (not that I completely agree with either of them):
DWLoHesUQAAcXrW.jpg:large
 

redrumloa

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Reminded me of this (not that I completely agree with either of them):
DWLoHesUQAAcXrW.jpg:large

If you believe that propaganda, you are really far gone.

Anyhow sorry to ruin your day, but this guy isn't white.

OTOH, he was from a wealthy family and was a Democrat, like all school shooters.
 

redrumloa

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"White"

a981ab9ef7efc7750c7f447f1113ff1b


Of course people like Robert are saying he's white, because that's the narrative being promoted. Anytime his face is shown in the media, they make sure to crank up the brightness to the point it washes out the image.

skynews-nikolas-cruz-florida-shooting_4232141.jpg
 

Robert

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If you believe that propaganda, you are really far gone.

Anyhow sorry to ruin your day, but this guy isn't white.

OTOH, he was from a wealthy family and was a Democrat, like all school shooters.

See the part where I said I didn't completely agree with it?
You know, the bit you ignored in order to try to point score?

But yes, I'm the one who is far gone. :rolleyes:
 

FluffyMcDeath

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If it is always outlandish then yes, necessarily.
You said "putting words into people's mouths is always outlandish."
Of course, I disagree.

There's a old joke - you've probably heard it in a variation - a woman buys two dresses for her daughter-in-law. On the next visit to her son, the daughter-in-law wants to show her appreciation for the gift and decides to wear one of the dresses. When she opens the door to greet the mother-in-law, the mother-in-law says "The other dress you don't like?"

The implication you make is not necessarily an implication that is inherent in the facts, and it not generally fair to attribute your implication as the speakers intention.

Is the statement that cyclists should wear helmets "victim blaming"? If you'd just been hit by a car and taken a good whack to the noggin you might think that, but you'd also have to think that the comment was directed at you.

A very simple implication from Trump's words is that he is a person that believes people have a responsibility to look after themselves and their communities. In that subsequent facts have shown that some people did report their concerns means that his words are merely uninformed. It also shows that there IS work the government can do - properly fund and run the systems it has already legislated into place.

Another thing that we can imply from what we have come to know is that most people don't report things, think that it's someone else's problem (or responsibility) and that nobody really cares until something bad happens and then it's someone else's fault. This kid was on a course to do something at some time, kill someone or kill himself. Most of his community didn't give a damn, they either teased him or punished him or both. Some people tried to help but they didn't really know what to do or who to turn to - because there really isn't much for kids like him.

When something like this happens there's a lot of people asking what went wrong, but Trump and his opponents both seem to be convinced that they know what went wrong and who is to blame. When something terrible happens, the first thing to ask is : is there anything I could have done to prevent this? and then expand the circle - because you are the one with the most interest in you. And this isn't just a problem "over there" in America or in Florida or in Parkland.

Will anything change? I doubt that it will because, quite frankly, this is not America's biggest problem. Shootings like this are still rare considering the population size, there are so many guns in the culture and the world that getting rid of them is a task too big to accomplish. There are all sorts of economic interests that will be in the way, too many cultural interests and both parties love having something to fight about so much that they would hate to actually DO anything about it and have it settled one way or another. America, more than many other western countries, is a place of cities and vast empty places. If you live in a city you are more likely to be anti-gun because a stray bullet is more likely to be a danger to you and your loved ones, whereas there are plenty of places in the US where you could go and not have a chance of hitting anything with artillery and where a gun is a tool to kill what you want to eat and what wants to eat you.

Getting back to the issue of the tweet, the Don's tweet was simply uninformed. It wasn't even wrong per se, just not very useful. The backlash IS useful to certain political operators who love to puff up anything they can into outrage - a force more dangerous than just one autistic kid with gun. Trump didn't say "The kids that got shot deserved it" and people who pretend that he did are dangerous.
 

redrumloa

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See the part where I said I didn't completely agree with it?
You know, the bit you ignored in order to try to point score?

But yes, I'm the one who is far gone. :rolleyes:

Saying "not that I completely agree", but posting it anyhow is no different than this guy.

hqdefault.jpg
 

redrumloa

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Broward schools are ridiculously bad. The last of my kids will graduate in a few months and hopefully my I will never have to deal with it again.

I have countless examples, so I will only give one of the milder examples. In grade school my oldest went to a predominantly black school (about 60-70% black, maybe 15-20% white). He got a short buzz cut haircut and went to school in a plain white shirt one day around 3rd grade, a teacher scolded him that "we don't allow that look in school anymore".

White kid, short hair, plain white tee-shirt. Racist teacher much?
 
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redrumloa

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And the propaganda keeps ratcheting up.

CNN Claims Rifles And Shotguns Can Be Carried Concealed

In the wake of the Florida school shooting, CNN sent a tweet insisting that people can “conceal carry” rifles and shotguns.

CNN decided to tweet about Florida state laws regarding firearms after Wednesday’s shooting and let people know that they would not need a permit to conceal carry a rifle or shotgun in the state.

“In Florida, you don’t need a permit to conceal carry a rifle or shotgun,” they wrote, “although you do need it to conceal carry a handgun.”


 

FluffyMcDeath

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And the propaganda keeps ratcheting up.

CNN Claims Rifles And Shotguns Can Be Carried Concealed

In the wake of the Florida school shooting, CNN sent a tweet insisting that people can “conceal carry” rifles and shotguns.

CNN decided to tweet about Florida state laws regarding firearms after Wednesday’s shooting and let people know that they would not need a permit to conceal carry a rifle or shotgun in the state.

“In Florida, you don’t need a permit to conceal carry a rifle or shotgun,” they wrote, “although you do need it to conceal carry a handgun.”


Presumably, if you put your long gun in a bag it would be concealed. If you carried that bag ...
 

Robert

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TELEMMGLPICT000155174037_trans_NvBQzQNjv4Bqnj5f55R6XEVcLbfHVgP9-mI_voTPiZ9y98UHewUTz8w.jpeg

Personal reminder to tell the grieving kids, "I hear you." Of course, there's nothing intrinsically crass about this. It's simply Trump being factually correct.

And it's tremendous.

As is this:
But desperate times call for desperate measures:
"Let's say you had 20 per cent of your teaching force, that's pretty much the number. If you had a teacher adept at firarms it could very well end the attack very quickly. We're going to be looking at it very strongly."

"You have a lot of people, they may be armed, they may be professionals, they may be people that left the Marines, Army, Air Force, and are adept. You'd have a lot of them and they'd be spread evenly through the school."

Magnificent stuff.

He goes on to say:
"I really believe if these cowards knew the school was well guarded I think they wouldn't go into the school to start with."

Again, he's probably correct.
I think it could very well solve your problem.
Problem solved! :banana:
 

redrumloa

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As is this:

That's all you got?

Shooting Survivor Quit CNN Town Hall After Refusing to Ask ‘Scripted’ Question

Colton Haab, a student who survived last week’s mass shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, refused to participate in a CNN Town Hall on Wednesday night after he was told to ask a “scripted” question.

Haab, a junior at the high school, told Fort Lauderdale ABC affiliate WPLG that CNN invited him to speak at the televised town hall in nearby Sunrise, Florida, and that he and his parents had dressed up for the occasion.

But CNN then told Haab he would have to read a question that CNN had prepared for him:

Haab: I expected to be able to ask my questions and give my opinion on my questions.

Reporter Janine Stanwood: But Colton Haab, a member of the Junior ROTC, who shielded classmates in the midst of terror, says he did not get to share his experience.

Haab: CNN had originally asked me to write a speech and questions, and it ended up being all scripted.

Stanwood: Colton wrote questions about school safety, suggested using veterans as armed school security guards, but claims CNN wanted him to ask a scripted question instead. So he decided not to go.

Haab: I don’t think that it’s going to get anything accomplished. It’s not going to ask the true questions that all the parents and teachers and students have.

I can't even get traffic and weather from my local TV station anymore. All they are doing is a wall of "kids crying for gun control" propaganda, all carefully scripted and one sided. We can see where Soros' billions he pledged this year is going for.
 

Robert

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ilwrath

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Around one school shooting for every 2.5 days. Depressing stuff.

Well, that stat is not what it seems. From the link, itself, is this sentence. "It reports any time a firearm is discharged within a school building or on campus, whether accidentally or intentionally and whether or not anyone has been harmed." So that includes things like someone driving by a parking lot at night and firing, hitting nothing, and a fight in a school parking lot that was called in as shots fired, yet no evidence was presented anyone even had a gun. (Both of which were actually included in that 18 total.) (For background, in many inner-city areas, police calls are often made as "shots fired" even when they aren't, just to get an officer to show up.)

Personally, I'd love to know how they'd count my old high school. We had an archery and rifle range in the basement! (Granted, we didn't still use it for rifles, but it had been.)

Still, the several real school shootings are way too many, and plenty depressing stuff, though. (sigh)
 

Robert

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Well, that stat is not what it seems.

I know, if you continue reading the thread:
it still works out that for every three days that pass, more than one of the things you describe occurs at or near a school.
That remains depressing stuff.
 

Robert

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What exactly do you disagree with?

Disagree? Who said I disagree?

I'd maybe tweak some of the details, like the arming 20% of teachers part. Why only 20%? Why not make it 100%?

And the concealed part. How is it a deterrent if it's concealed? Much better deterrent if it's in full view.

But we've already been over this earlier in the thread and it's all common sense anyway, isn't it?
 
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