"Conservative" Republicans

[faethor]

I'm sure no one's missed the news that we're nearing the debt ceiling and need to move it. It appears the Republican lead House doesn't have a plan, to date, that's acceptable to the Republicans themselves let alone the Democrats.

We're close enough to the deadline that markets are getting spooked. Even if the debt ceiling is increased it's very likely the interest rate for Gov borrowing will be increased. Why is this a problem? Supposedly Republicans are very concerned about the deficit. Yet their own actions are exceedingly likely to increase the interest, which increases borrowing, which will increase the US deficit. It'll in turn make States and people's household interest rates increase. Overall this flows more money into the financial market and takes away value from the Nation and importantly your family.

If interest rates increase because the Republicans can't do their job there's no frickin' way I'm ever believing this Republican are more 'conservative' statement. As time and again they've shown this to not be true.

 

[faethor]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43932848/ns/local_news-chicago_il/

Tea Party Congressman from Chicago's northwest suburbs, who says he "won't place one more dollar of debt upon the backs of my kids" owes those same children and his ex-wife more than $100,000, according to documents filed in his divorce case in December.

..Seriously John Stewart gets paid? The Republicans simply write his jokes for him.

 

[Dammy]

I'm sure no one's missed the news that we're nearing the debt ceiling and need to move it. It appears the Republican lead House doesn't have a plan, to date, that's acceptable to the Republicans themselves let alone the Democrats.

And the Democrat plan is where to read? Oh wait, this is Reid we are talking about, the man who hasn't had a budget pass his Senate in two years. I hope the GOP stays strong on this, let the government go into semi-shut down, whenever the money runs out for paying full government operations. This is all too insane, $14T in debt, mostly short term debt at that and they want to spend more? US Government takes in $200B @ month and they can't live off of that? This is total insanity.

 

[faethor]

Of course semi-shutdown, worsen the bond rating, raise the interest rates, and raising the deficit. This makes the USA borrow more money to cover the increase in interest ensuring your tax dollar is even more wasted. Fantastic idea. And Tea Partiers in the GOP, eg Michelle Bachmann, think this is a good idea too. -- Bullocks!

Come on Dammy you don't fight insanity by becoming more insane.

 

[Dammy]

Of course semi-shutdown, worsen the bond rating, raise the interest rates, and raising the deficit. This makes the USA borrow more money to cover the increase in interest ensuring your tax dollar is even more wasted. Fantastic idea. And Tea Partiers in the GOP, eg Michelle Bachmann, think this is a good idea too. -- Bullocks!

Come on Dammy you don't fight insanity by becoming more insane.

Let me educate you since you are falling for the bullocks that the mass media is spewing. First of the dirty little secrets is national debt MUST and SHALL be paid by the Treasury Dept. White House last week told bankers and this recent article: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-28/u-s-contingency-plan-gives-bondholders-priority.html Second is that unless Obama personally directs Social Security payments withheld, they must, by law (Social Security Act) be paid out. That leaves about $100B for August revenues to be spent on military, Medicare/Medicaid, and federal law enforcement. Rest of the government can shut down for all I care.

We have a spending problem, not a revenue generation problem. It's high time your side comes sober enough to understand we are at a knifes edge and have to cut, and cut deeply. Then again, we are probably too late and if we are, inflation will start very soon and it's game over then.

 

[cecilia]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/43932848/ns/local_news-chicago_il/

Tea Party Congressman from Chicago's northwest suburbs, who says he "won't place one more dollar of debt upon the backs of my kids" owes those same children and his ex-wife more than $100,000, according to documents filed in his divorce case in December.

..Seriously John Stewart gets paid? The Republicans simply write his jokes for him.

hypocrisy is all part of the uniform of these fascists.

 

[cecilia]

Of course semi-shutdown, worsen the bond rating, raise the interest rates, and raising the deficit. This makes the USA borrow more money to cover the increase in interest ensuring your tax dollar is even more wasted. Fantastic idea. And Tea Partiers in the GOP, eg Michelle Bachmann, think this is a good idea too. -- Bullocks!

Come on Dammy you don't fight insanity by becoming more insane.

Bachmann is another hypocrite who has lived off government money for years

 

[Dammy]

Bachmann is another hypocrite who has lived off government money for years

Then let's cut it off then. That's the whole point why the Tea Party GOPers are dragging their feet on this awful plan that does nothing but give lip service. Time for cuts, and that time is right now because if we don't change course now, it's going to implode and I feel sorry for those living in major urban areas.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Second is that unless Obama personally directs Social Security payments withheld, they must, by law (Social Security Act) be paid out.

Holding Social Security ransom (or implying it) is despicable. Social Security is self financing and the government really has no right to interfere in its operation. However, since the money in its fund has been borrowed by the government its effective holdings are government bonds which must be converted back to dollars. Bondholders are getting priority so Social Security should be covered.

Then again, we are probably too late and if we are, inflation will start very soon and it's game over then.

Have been too late for a while. The only good fix is outlawing interest and debt forgiveness. The guys that made stupid loans always hate it when they are made to live with their mistakes but its what has to happen. What cannot be paid back will not be paid back. That was true even 4000 years ago when the problems of interest where recognized and jubilee years instituted.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

We have a spending problem, not a revenue generation problem.

No. It's both. People who refuse to look at the income side are just playing a game (or live in a fantasy world).

 

[cecilia]

Then let's cut it off then. That's the whole point why the Tea Party GOPers are dragging their feet on this awful plan that does nothing but give lip service. Time for cuts, and that time is right now because if we don't change course now, it's going to implode and I feel sorry for those living in major urban areas.

the other welfare bums who need to get cut off are the oil companies. they need to just pay their taxes and stop living off the dole

 

[faethor]

Let me educate you since you are falling for the bullocks that the mass media is spewing. First of the dirty little secrets is national debt MUST and SHALL be paid by the Treasury Dept.

Of course it must. It does so by borrowing money. And because of the default they get to borrow at a higher interest rate. This results in spending your tax dollars less wisely.

We have a spending problem, not a revenue generation problem. It's high time your side comes sober enough to understand we are at a knifes edge and have to cut, and cut deeply. Then again, we are probably too late and if we are, inflation will start very soon and it's game over then.

We have both problems. Federal taxes are at a 50 year low and spending is at the highest ever. We're even still spending for the debts from the Reagan Era.

We've understood the government has to make a surplus and pay off debt. Do you remember the Dem. Clinton surplus which the Rep. Bush pushed as tax cuts to the US. At the end of Dem. Clinton we had slowed the increase in debt and had the potential, if the Rep. truly wanted to be financially conservative, to begin paying off some debt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_debt_by_U.S._presidential_terms -- Check out the middle graph we see Kennady and Johnson as decreasing the debt to GDP ratio, as does Carter, as does Clinton. View the Republicans and what do you see? Nixon/Ford flat. Reagan, Ford, Bush, and Bush all increase the debt to GDP ratio. So really which parties are worse for debt? And I think you'll find many Dems wanting to see Obama not follow the Republicans in this regard.

And let's walk through what's happened (or not). Republican dominated and Republican lead House Budget Committee forwarded no budget to the Republican dominated and Republican lead House to vote on. The bill, had it existed, goes to the Senate for the Republican lead Budget Committee to work with and then forwarded to the Democratic lead Senate to then forward and sign by the Democratic President. The budget is still stalled in the Republicans as they can't get themselves to agree, let alone the "opposing" party.

Worse debt to GDP ratios and the inability to pass a budget are all symptoms here of Republicans. The so called "conservative" party. The fact is for the last 60 years the nation as far as spending and economic conditions for business has faired better under a Democratic President. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/08/28/AR2008082802851.html And even now we're seeing businesses make some major profits. They aren't trickling it down and they aren't giving it back in taxes.

Then let's cut it off then. That's the whole point why the Tea Party GOPers are dragging their feet on this awful plan that does nothing but give lip service.

Do you really think that, example Bachmann, who is making money off the government and to date has failed to find a different funding model has any sort of willingness or ability to cut herself and her friends off of the gov? In the same vein we see Republicans and candidates hating government healthcare and then signing up as soon as they are elected. Signing up? Some were even complaining that their new government funded healthcare had a waiting period before it started.

 

[Dammy]

Holding Social Security ransom (or implying it) is despicable.

Yeah, it was pretty low life of Obama to do that. Especially by law it has to go out.

Social Security is self financing and the government really has no right to interfere in its operation. However, since the money in its fund has been borrowed by the government its effective holdings are government bonds which must be converted back to dollars. Bondholders are getting priority so Social Security should be covered.

It is, and they will, that was never legally in doubt unless Obama signs a executive order forbidding it. The SSA trust fund (what a joke, it is filled with US Government IOUs) should have never been placed in General Revenue Fund.

Have been too late for a while. The only good fix is outlawing interest and debt forgiveness. The guys that made stupid loans always hate it when they are made to live with their mistakes but its what has to happen. What cannot be paid back will not be paid back. That was true even 4000 years ago when the problems of interest where recognized and jubilee years instituted.

Wall Street should have been made to swallow the tough medicine when the bills came do. There is no reason why they or GM/Chrysler should have been giving any US government loans. Obama and the Democrats (and for that matter, Republican ruling elites as well) need to let business do it's job and clean up after itself. What Obama and the Democrats need to do is clean up Freddie/Fannie once and for all and sell off the remaining assets. What a Charlie Foxtrot those two government-corporations have put the nation through.

 

[Dammy]

No. It's both. People who refuse to look at the income side are just playing a game (or live in a fantasy world).

No, it's clearly a spending issue, we are taking in $200B @ month, that's more then enough to run the central government on. Which is pretty good since 47% of the US tax payers pay zero income tax.

 

[Dammy]

the other welfare bums who need to get cut off are the oil companies. they need to just pay their taxes and stop living off the dole

The only major tax breaks I know of the oil companies are for the small and medium size ones (tax credit for oil field resource reductions) to inspire more drilling. If you are referring to the Liar and Chief was braying about several months ago, it was all a lie. Big oil hasn't been able to touch that tax credit since Congress outlawed big oil from using it in 1976. What is Big Oil paying in taxes now, $70M @ month?

 

[minator]

The US economy is highly dependant on foreign money. If foreigners start pulling out it could be catastrophic for the US (and world) economy.

The US gov have borrowed heavily over the last 30 years and put that money in to rich people's pockets. This is in effect what Greece did. Look what happened to them...

 

[Dammy]

The US economy is highly dependant on foreign money. If foreigners start pulling out it could be catastrophic for the US (and world) economy.

At one time, US citizens and corporations were investing in the US. Today, they are investing offshore because the US is no longer profitable to do so on many levels.

The US gov have borrowed heavily over the last 30 years and put that money in to rich people's pockets. This is in effect what Greece did. Look what happened to them...

US has gone from really stupid borrowing to absolute insanity that only a methhead could appreciate.

Which yields this result:

It's no longer a question if the US will ever default, it's a matter of when the US will default unless the elites stop this insanity right now. Problem is right now, they are fighting to keep things as is as the US heads towards $25T in debt by 2022.

Now add in the trillions of QE I and II have created out of thin air with the possibility of QE III (Hey it didn't work the first two times, third time's a charm in economics, right?) that is being locked up in bank accounts, and the oil market manipulation by those who want the US dollar dead and replaced, you have a full economic global meltdown in motion as massive inflation (and interest rates rise) is somewhere in the pipeline ready to explode. If you want to know how bad the US dollar is doing, look at gold prices, the higher they go, the weaker the US Dollar is becoming. Right now you see people selling gold to survive, when you start to see them lining up to buy gold, you know the gold bubble has arrived. Bonds and T-Bills won't be worth the paper they are printed on in the coming days. I can only wonder how many corps on the stock exchange will be left standing after this crash happens.

 

[faethor]

US has gone from really stupid borrowing to absolute insanity that only a methhead could appreciate.

Dammy -- love this graph!. 75/76 you can see the split w/ Taxes down and spending up with Ford. Next 4 years the lines get closer (Dem Carter). Next 12 years things again grow apart (Rep Reagan and Bush). Then for 8 years things get so good that revenue exceeds expenditures. (Dem Clinton). But very quickly we see Bush turn that around and while things were getting kinda good we can see at the end of another Rep a larger seperation of revenue and expenditures. So called conservative Republicans don't seem to be able to get the budget together.

Thanks for the great example demonstrating my point. I'm all for reducing spending and increasing revenue. I don't have any hope a conservative is the answer. And certainly not the Tax Party. They just don't want to pay taxes which will tank the revenue greatly.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

US has gone from really stupid borrowing to absolute insanity that only a methhead could appreciate.
Now add in the trillions of QE I and II have created out of thin air with the possibility of QE III

QE is Federal reserve and nothing to do with Rep or Dem. And nice arbitrary trend lines, btw, on the chart.

As for the debt it's been quite plain that the Republicans have been trying to0 blow up the system. It's a goal of theirs, even openly stated on occasion, to do just that by starving the government of revenue and then spending insanely.

Bush 43 was initially worried about spending on wars but it was Dick Cheney (who worked in the Nixon White House under Donald Rumsfeld, was White House Chief of Staff under Ford and Secretary of Defense under Bush 41) who told Dubya that "Reagan proved deficits don't matter". It's long statnding strategy to drive the deficits up and then blame them on big government and to cudgel the Dems with while in opposition.

 

[faethor]

This chart seems confused in it's attempt to discredit. It tells me the 2nd greatest money printer was elected in 2001? We didn't have Presidential elections in 2001. Also, President's budgets their first year come from the preceeding administration. It's typically not till fall of the year after election when their budget is passed. Making the real impact on budget the 2nd year the administration is in office. Realistically we have 1 point of difference for Obama. He'd be the #1,perhaps, if one assumes the spending increases continue at the same rate.

Also what qualifies one for the greatest money printer? #2 is just under $6Trillon up to $12 Trillion (2001-2009) which is a doubling of the debt. Yet 1981-1989 is a bit over $1Trillion to about $3.25Trillon so a more than tripling of the debt. I suppose they meant greatest money printer to mean pure dollars not worst change. Though that's really a fair assessment because $1 in 1981 could buy more than $1 in 2009.