Pathologist confirms Martin was aggressor, Zimmerman acted out of self defense

[redrumloa]

Pathologist supports Zimmerman's description of attack

Evidence supports George Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin was on top of him when Zimmerman fired the shot that claimed Trayvon's life, a forensic pathologist testified Tuesday at Zimmerman's murder trial.

Trayvon supporters will not like this.

DiMaio also testified that Zimmerman's head injuries could have been caused by coming into contact with concrete and that such injuries can be very dangerous. That testimony supported Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon was slamming his head into a sidewalk.

DiMaio said Zimmerman had at least six injuries from struggle: two head lacerations, two wounds to his temples and wounds on his nose and forehead. Those injuries were consistent with having his head banged into a sidewalk, DiMaio said.

I know, I know, you cannot get the mental image of a fresh faced 12 year old boy chased down by a Klansman out of your mind. Media brainwashing is strong like that.

 

[Glaucus]

I think the lesson to take home from this is that if you're bashing a stalker's head into the concrete, make sure you do it hard enough to cause more then just a few scrapes. You should at the very least make sure the stalker goes unconscious in case he's armed as was Zimmerman. Martin was clearly doing it wrong possibly because he just didn't want to cause serious harm. Big mistake.

 

[redrumloa]

@Mike
You still keep believing the version of the story you want to believe. One by one those versions are being debunked.

I don't like over zealous people, be they security guards, neighborhood watch, condo commandos etc, but I would never consider chasing them down and assaulting them, knocking them to the ground, mounting them and bashing their head in the ground while they scream for help.

Have you ever really thought through what you are defending? Throw out the mental images of the 5+ year old pre-teen pictures. Throw out the admittedly doctored audio recordings played by the media. Throw out the blatantly false, race baiting hack pieces in the liberal media. Strip it all down to simple facts and I doubt you would keep defending this dead thug.

 

[redrumloa]

 

[redrumloa]

 

[redrumloa]

The reality is much different than the agenda backed liberal media.

Gee, what is he like 9 years old in that picture? Why not just use a picture while he is was in diapers

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I know, I know, you cannot get the mental image of a fresh faced 12 year old boy chased down by a Klansman out of your mind. Media brainwashing is strong like that.

There is an adult and a child. One is armed the other is not. One is following the other who is doing nothing wrong. Everything leading up to the encounter is Zimerman's fault and ultimately one of the two is dead and the one still alive is the killer.

He should have just called the police. He ought to go to jail even if it's just to tell other people not to be such a tool.

 

[metalman]

one was a wanna be MMA street fighter, the other was not ....

state trying to block evidence on TM's phone

 

[redrumloa]

one was a wanna be MMA street fighter, the other was not ....

state trying to block evidence on TM's phone

Right, one who also had a history of assault including assaulting a bus driver.

 

[redrumloa]

There is an adult and a child. One is armed the other is not. One is following the other who is doing nothing wrong. Everything leading up to the encounter is Zimerman's fault and ultimately one of the two is dead and the one still alive is the killer.

He should have just called the police. He ought to go to jail even if it's just to tell other people not to be such a tool.

You are letting emotions in again. Zimmerman could be a complete tool and even an ass, but that does not give permission for Trayvon the chase him down and try to kill him. From what I see Zimmerman broke no laws. You know what you defenders are starting to sound like? You sound like those who say shit like "bitch shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt and maybe she wouldn't be raped".

 

[faethor]

@Red,
I fail to see the point of the conversation or the pictures. Unless being a black man in a cap in the South is an acceptable death sentence condition?

The fact is there were 2 parties at play. If Zimmerman didn't have a weekend warrior/rent-a-cop mentality the situation could have been avoided. He would have listened to 9/11 and not gotten in the confrontation. There was little need to follow Martin. No crime was happening. It was Zimmerman's paranoia and inflated self at work. This, of course, doesn't make the confrontation correct but it is a precipitating condition that increased, if not ensured, such a confrontation would occur.

In MN we have a equal force law. You can defend yourself but you can't use overtly more force than your attacker. In most cases if the other person didn't have a gun and you got punched you cannot draw your gun and kill the other person. What that outcome would have been we don't know. We can all make guesses but we really don't know. Statistically, what we know that in the vast majority of fist fights both parties live.

I think a question for Florida is how does 'Stand your Ground' work? If you're pursuing someone you suspect of something that definitely puts fear in the person in pursuit. The question will be how much did Zimmerman, stand his ground, or was he being an aggressor by the pursuit?

 

[metalman]

I think a question for Florida is how does 'Stand your Ground' work? If you're pursuing someone you suspect of something that definitely puts fear in the person in pursuit. The question will be how much did Zimmerman, stand his ground, or was he being an aggressor by the pursuit?

Try to pay attention, this is not a "stand your ground" case, there is a special hearing that can be requested by the defence
if its going to make a "stand your ground" defence, the defence never requested any hearing

The state is trying to block the introduction of evidence on Trayvon's phone, some of the messages are from Trayvon’s Dad, Tracy, a/k/a "Fruit" texting Trayvon about buying and selling handguns. The messages were in a double passworded folder that were deleted but recovered by the defence.

It's not a crime to watch someone who was acting suspiciously. Obviously you don't live in a neighborhood where the junkies are stealing everything that can be pawned or sold at the scrap yard.

 

[Robert]

I think a question for Florida is how does 'Stand your Ground' work? If you're pursuing someone you suspect of something that definitely puts fear in the person in pursuit. The question will be how much did Zimmerman, stand his ground, or was he being an aggressor by the pursuit?

Regardless of what actually happened, what has become clear from the aftermath of this unfortunate incident is that if you happened to be stalking someone to the point that the person reacted by punching you, many people feel you would be quite right to shoot them dead in response.

 

[faethor]

Regardless of what actually happened, what has become clear from the aftermath of this unfortunate incident is that if you happened to be stalking someone to the point that the person reacted by punching you, many people feel you would be quite right to shoot them dead in response.

That goes well with the recent Texas acquitting of murder for killing a woman who refused to sell him sex.

 

[redrumloa]

Regardless of what actually happened, what has become clear from the aftermath of this unfortunate incident is that if you happened to be stalking someone to the point that the person reacted by punching you, many people feel you would be quite right to shoot them dead in response.

Still glossing over the facts, eh? Here's a hint, Zimmerman was not "stalking" or he would be damn well charged with such.

 

[faethor]

Try to pay attention, this is not a "stand your ground" case, there is a special hearing that can be requested by the defence
if its going to make a "stand your ground" defence, the defence never requested any hearing

Do try to pay attention I never claimed the defense was saying this. It's a related question that this case could help answer.

The state is trying to block the introduction of evidence on Trayvon's phone, some of the messages are from Trayvon’s Dad, Tracy, a/k/a "Fruit" texting Trayvon about buying and selling handguns. The messages were in a double passworded folder that were deleted but recovered by the defence.

I think the defense is right. Trayvon didn't have a gun. Zimmerman never saw Trayvon buying or selling a handgun. I don't see this as relevant for the happenings on the night of the murder.

It's not a crime to watch someone who was acting suspiciously.

There are anti-stalking laws. That Trayvon was acting suspiciously is what Zimmerman claims. Though the 9/11 operator either disagreed with the suspicion idea OR thought it unimportant enough that they asked for the stalking to be called off.

Obviously you don't live in a neighborhood where the junkies are stealing everything that can be pawned or sold at the scrap yard.

I think this was obvious as I wasn't the one making prejudiced judgments that unarmed black teens in hoodies are junkie thieves that need to be stalked.

@Redrumloa,
Words have more meaning than a legal only version. Stalking is the action of unwanted contact between two people that communicates a threat. While Zimmerman's actions may not be charged with the legal definition of stalking. That only means he wasn't charged, or might not fit the legal definition. I think it obvious that Trayvon felt threatened by the following. And if the following didn't happen, as the 9/11 operator requested, it would have been unlikely that any physical harm would have come to Zimmerman, and the situation would have been avoided.

 

[faethor]

Evidence supports George Zimmerman's claim that Trayvon Martin was on top of him when Zimmerman fired the shot that claimed Trayvon's life, a forensic pathologist testified Tuesday at Zimmerman's murder trial.

This was just released:

Under cross-examination, DiMaio conceded that the gunshot could also be consistent with Martin pulling away from Zimmerman, and that he reached his conclusion without factoring in statements from some neighbors who say Zimmerman was on top of Martin. DiMaio, who has testified at high-profile trials including that of record producer Phil Spector, said witness accounts are often unreliable. The pathologist said he had been paid $2,400 by the defense.

So now we have the evidence can be read another way, from the same pathologist.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

You know what you defenders are starting to sound like? You sound like those who say shit like "bitch shouldn't have been wearing that short skirt and maybe she wouldn't be raped".

Which is what it sounds like when people keep trying to talk about Trayvon's history. "You're Honour, the victim says she got raped but I have it on good authority she had sex a lot in the past!!!!"

At the end both guys could claim "self defense". Trayvon, had he lived, could be making that claim now. However, this started long before we got to that point and so the culpability is further in the past. The guy who initiated this chain of events.

The case is, in effect, trying to decide whether it's OK to follow someone around and provoke their anger so you can kill them in "self-defense".

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Still glossing over the facts, eh? Here's a hint, Zimmerman was not "stalking" or he would be damn well charged with such.

I think you are aware that there is a difference between the legal definition of stalking and the common usage.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

This was just released:

So now we have the evidence can be read another way, from the same pathologist.

Generally expert witnesses should be ignored. Both sides shop around for the story they want and it seems like they can always find an expert witness to support their position. They are generally paid quite well too so on top of personal bias that they bring with them there is also the financial incentive. It's not that the majority of expert witnesses are crooked but rather they are more likely to get any particular job if their earnest opinions are aligned with the client's needs.