Trump

Robert

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Interesting character this Trump guy.

This is one of my favourite Trump quotes:
"The other thing with the terrorists is you have to take out their families, when you get these terrorists, you have to take out their families. They care about their lives, don't kid yourself. When they say they don't care about their lives, you have to take out their families"

I suppose interesting is one word for it.
 

Wayne

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Ah well. I have to say that I'm actually trying to avoid most news and FB feeds these days. In my 50 years of degrading this planet, I've never seen such blatant news bias on every single front. Yeah, I knew it existed, but at least they were semi-covert about that shit before. Now you've got CNN actively covering the RNC and spending all day inviting guests to trash Trump. You've got FOX covering the RNC doing nothing but trashing Clinton but it's not just those two.

Seemingly EVERY SINGLE "news" outlet or blog out there right now has jumped on the extremist-view "your side sucks and you're completely full of shit if you support candidate x" bandwagon.. There seems -- point of fact -- to be zero balanced coverage of anything going on right now...

For me, it gets a little emotionally tiring, and I've even noticed that it's affected a couple of friendships (to the extent that a dear friend of mine was defending Clinton because "she's a woman... She's done nothing wrong, and all the talk of her being a criminal is just the Republican conspiracy against women"). Love this friend as I may, I can't just overlook stupid shit statements like that. Even from my best friends...

If you hate Trump, fine, vote for Johnson, but dammit, keep the felonious murderers out of the White House...
 

Robert

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If you hate Trump, fine, vote for Johnson, but dammit, keep the felonious murderers out of the White House...

And if you hate Clinton, fine, vote for Johnson?
I know nothing of GJ and don't really care as he is almost certainly an irrelevance, precisely because people who hate Trump more than Clinton *will* vote for Clinton and people who hate Clinton more than Trump *will* vote for Trump.

I know I keep saying this but Clinton has been a shoo-in ever since the initial hopefuls were announced.

The fact that she is a reprehensible, lying scumbag *might* have prevented her winning if her direct competitor was not also a reprehensible, lying scumbag.

But, looking at past US general elections, I doubt it.
 

Wayne

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I know I keep saying this but Clinton has been a shoo-in ever since the initial hopefuls were announced.
Agreed.

The fact that she is a reprehensible, lying scumbag *might* have prevented her winning if her direct competitor was not also a reprehensible, lying scumbag. But, looking at past US general elections, I doubt it.

Also sadly agreed. This is the "Idiocracy choice" election.
 

ilwrath

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Each election the two choices get worse and worse. It's been that way as far back as I can remember.

To me, I see it as this:

Hillary is a proven disaster.
Trump is a potential disaster, but probably less so than Hillary.
Anyone else stands very little chance.

As it is, though, I still have to hope that one day the cycle can be broken. My vote will likely to go Gary Johnson again. If just half of the voters who are disgusted by the two choices went outside the box and voted for a 3rd party, it would completely rock the political world. But until that happens, it'll keep getting worse.
 

FluffyMcDeath

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If just half of the voters who are disgusted by the two choices went outside the box and voted for a 3rd party, it would completely rock the political world. But until that happens, it'll keep getting worse.

Agreed. Voting for someone who is outside of the two ruling tribes would force the tribes to figure out how to get those votes if there were a big enough pool of voters to reach.
On the other hand, I think Trump IS the outsider. He's been a registered Democrat most of his life, he's been back and forth between the parties and he was registered Reform in 99, and Independent in 2011. He is not a politician, he's a populist.
 

ilwrath

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On the other hand, I think Trump IS the outsider. He's been a registered Democrat most of his life, he's been back and forth between the parties and he was registered Reform in 99, and Independent in 2011. He is not a politician, he's a populist.

I don't disagree with that. I wish we had a better read on Trump. Really, in terms of trying to decipher what his Presidential priorities might look like if he were actually elected... We know very little for sure.

If you laid out a -10 to +10 range, for change you expect should that person be elected...
I'd say Hillary's range would be a -6 to -4. We know what we're going to get. And it ain't good. Still, there is some room in there for it to be worse.
Trumps range? Maybe a -9 to +5? It's pretty much the entire spectrum of possibilities.

There is a real possibility he could be the worst president in my lifetime. There is also a real possibility he could be the best. People still think Trump's an idiot. It shows just how good he is at deception. Like I've said all along, an idiot wouldn't get to where Trump is. But which parts of what he says and does are politics, and which parts are actual beliefs? I'm in the dark. Is the support for Glass-Steagall the ploy, or is the bigotry and sectarianism?
 

FluffyMcDeath

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Is the support for Glass-Steagall the ploy, or is the bigotry and sectarianism?
I think that one is pretty core. He's been a real estate guy for his life and he has a big beef with the banks about how they speculate and mess with the real estate market.
 

Argo

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Look to the third parties. Particularly, the Libertarian and Green. There are saner choices. Sadly, I don't see many getting past their red or blue blindedness. Some will only see two choices.
 

cecilia

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This is one of my favourite Trump quotes:


I suppose interesting is one word for it.
drumpf thinks he's Tony Soprano.
he's a racist and a bully. He would be a disaster of gigantic proportions - partly because he just vomits out crap everytime he talks, but also because he's entirely ignorant of reality.
he's also a scammer, ripping off small businesses while bullying them with lawsuits so they can't afford to get their bills paid.
he really is despicable
 

redrumloa

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Fought off a revolt at the convention and becomes the nominee for the GOP!

Pushes reinstatement of Glass-Steagall into the platform.
Blocks the plank for arming Ukraine. (Like how the article calls it Trump deferring to Putin instead of Trump saving the world from nuclear Armageddon).

Interesting character this Trump guy.

I was wondering what you'd think about Trump. Honestly I've only started warming up to him in the last month or so. The fact he's a reality show blowhard that used to be a hard left Democrat really turned me off. I didn't trust the guy and was all-in for Gary Johnson like I was 4 years ago. Then Gary Johnson got a taste of real poll numbers and took a staggering hard shift to the left of Bernie Sanders, just as Trump started calming down and articulating his positions more seriously. His acceptance speech was best I've seen since Reagan. I'm finding myself agreeing with Trump on Policy about 90% of the time. All I can do is hope he is for real and not lying through his teeth like all other politicians.

So you'd vote for Trump if you were in the USA?
 

FluffyMcDeath

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So you'd vote for Trump if you were in the USA?

Yup, pretty much. Bernie was my top pick outsider with a chance but Trump was my backup pick for outsider with a chance. Since they were both running in major parties and both way out of line with the party bosses I liked both of them. A big part of it is that I'm keen on what damage they could inflict on the party machine. Trump and Bernie both benefited from Ron Paul's amazing run last season. He really whetted the appetite for an outsider candidate and he highlighted the sort of machine an outsider is up against - a lot of lessons were learned.

Interesting poll I got a glimpse of quickly (forget which network it was on) had Trump out by a good margin ahead of Hillary and Johnson at 9% which is huge for a third party these days. Jill Stein was 3% which is also kind of interesting - and in this sense - it was interesting that Libertarian and Green were actually MENTIONED! Now, if Gary can keep building then hopefully his team can push for him to be in the debates (and if Jill could be there too that would be even better) because that way the debate field would open up and all sorts of "unquestionable" policies could be dragged out onto the floor (furthering the way certain usually untalked about issues got dragged out in the GOP and Democrat campaigns). It's like the walls are coming down - there is a popular awakening going on.

However, there is a very real danger brewing. The rulers know that getting a good war going will allow them to conduct harsh crackdowns on dissent for the sake of national security and right now there is a very serious push to get into a war with Russia - and that probably won't be as much fun as it sounds, if they succeed in getting it going.
 

FluffyMcDeath

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Must have been the CNN poll I was thinking of.

The poll by CNN places Mr Trump on 44 points, with Ms Clinton on 39, Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson on 9 points and the Green Party’s Jill Stein on 3 per cent.
 

JoBBo

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I don't disagree with that. I wish we had a better read on Trump. Really, in terms of trying to decipher what his Presidential priorities might look like if he were actually elected... We know very little for sure.

If you laid out a -10 to +10 range, for change you expect should that person be elected...
I'd say Hillary's range would be a -6 to -4. We know what we're going to get. And it ain't good. Still, there is some room in there for it to be worse.
Trumps range? Maybe a -9 to +5? It's pretty much the entire spectrum of possibilities.

There is a real possibility he could be the worst president in my lifetime. There is also a real possibility he could be the best.
Why do you give Trump the benefit of the doubt? Are your hardened feelings about Clinton guiding how you perceive Trump?

There are people who have analyzed his public statements. If you look up Trump on the fairly balanced Politifact.com website and compare his record with previous Republican presidential candidates McCain and Romney, there is a very stark difference Trump and his predecessors. His percentage of true or mostly true statements is abysmal.

Do you trust a leader that is constantly making untruthful statements? There are really only two explanations for it: He is either lying all the time or he literally just does not know any better. Would you personally be comfortable handing a person like this the nuclear codes?

People still think Trump's an idiot. It shows just how good he is at deception.
This is not a binary affair. You can be great at deceiving a sizable amount of people yet be a complete idiot about almost every thing else. Generally, even the people who despise Trump, acknowledge that he is great at winning over people.

The two most successful American music artists appear to be Rihanna and Mariah Carey. Millions of Americans are following their every word on social media. Tens of thousands of people regularly fill entire stadiums to see them live. Clearly, they are able to draw huge crowds. Does this make them qualified to run a country such as the United States of America?

I think it is healthy to remember that, especially in the US, it requires a vastly different set of skills to be elected into office than what is needed to effectively govern. It happens rarely that politicans are equally good at both.
 

Robert

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Why do you give Trump the benefit of the doubt? Are your hardened feelings about Clinton guiding how you perceive Trump?

There seems to be an awful lot of that going on.
Quite a depressing lack of scepticism of someone who is clearly prepared to say anything, be it true, false or completely mental, in order to get his way.

I think I have as much distaste for Clinton as anyone else on here and certainly wouldn't be voting for her.
Nonetheless, I wouldn't vote for Trump either and it absolutely baffles me that some are prepared to overlook his glaring flaws whilst highlighting a few meagre titbits of vaguely encouraging rhetoric, as though that's a good reason to vote for him.
It isn't - he's an arsehole who couldn't give two flying fucks about any of you.

Don't vote for Clinton.
Don't vote for Trump.
They are both contemptible scumbags.
Don't vote for either of them.
 

redrumloa

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Why do you give Trump the benefit of the doubt? Are your hardened feelings about Clinton guiding how you perceive Trump?

The choices are benefit of the doubt for Trump, or what is now undeniable about the Democrats.

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