100% of Catholic Bishops Oppose Obama’s Contraceptive Mandate

[Dammy]

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/100-catholic-bishops-oppose-obama-s-contraceptive-mandate

Government is indeed out of control. Glenn Beck returned from a meeting at the Vatican over the weekend, he remarked he talked to many (Western and Eastern) Europeans while in Italy and they all commented on how bad it was there but their biggest fears were for the US as it turns into a fascist state. They were very concern about America losing their freedom of speech, and I think this is a prime example of it. Here is a an American of Italian decent who is a practicing Catholic and he is being demonized because he states what he believes in which is what the Pope believes in. I just don't recognize this country anymore and what is about to happen to us, we may damn well deserve it because we allowed the government to be our new god and not our servant.

 

[faethor]

@Dammy,
And 85% of American Catholics go against their Bishops by actually using contraceptives.

Let's assume the bill mandating insurance is legal. Then certainly it is legal to mandate the base requirements of the legistlation. In this case if the government lets the Catholic Church drive the base requirements that would be putting the Church before the State and certainly before the individual. What you want degrades individual rights, denying them government support of their freedoms, and allows their Churches to mandate to supercede the individual. You've simply supported one version of Sky Daddy fascism over the nation.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Is America ruled by the elected government in Washington or by the unelected Vatican?

 

[Glaucus]

If we listen to the bishops we should then also listen to the mullahs. No thanks.

 

[Robert]

their biggest fears were for the US as it turns into a fascist state.

Something that's been a worry for many years.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Something that's been a worry for many years.

Good news. You can stop worrying!

 

[redrumloa]

Is America ruled by the elected government in Washington or by the unelected Vatican?

Washington should be securing our fu**ing borders and nothing else!

By the way, people listen and follow bishops only if they wish. You know, that whole freedom of religion and separation of church and state thing that is getting destroyed.

 

[cecilia]

people listen and follow bishops only if they wish. You know, that whole freedom of religion and separation of church and state thing that is getting destroyed.

yeah, that's all fine, but WHY are church people poking their noses into politics?
it's their behavior that is contributing to the lack of Separation

 

[Dammy]

@Dammy,
And 85% of American Catholics go against their Bishops by actually using contraceptives.

And 99% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that 85% is laughable at face value.

Let's assume the bill mandating insurance is legal. Then certainly it is legal to mandate the base requirements of the legistlation. In this case if the government lets the Catholic Church drive the base requirements that would be putting the Church before the State and certainly before the individual. What you want degrades individual rights, denying them government support of their freedoms, and allows their Churches to mandate to supercede the individual. You've simply supported one version of Sky Daddy fascism over the nation.

First of all, people have been buying birth control for decades without insurance. There is no laws on any state's books that bar the sales of birth control without insurance. People are free to go buy and use birth control all they want. Second, who the hell are you to tell an employer on what they may or may not offer to their employees as a benefit? Who the hell is Obama and his cronies to tell employers what they may or may not offer to their employees as a benefit? I don't see anything in the US Constitution authorizing such fascist decrees. Third, as a person who is uninsured, I am getting extremely pissed off that idiots who think they know what is best for everyone is causing insurance premiums to rise to be beyond any hopes that I or my employer will ever be able to afford it. Progressives are the problem, not the solution.

 

[faethor]

You know, that whole freedom of religion and separation of church and state thing that is getting destroyed.

I agree Red. There seems to be lots of problems that the government is interfering with religion when it should not.

One problem that's noteable is the 50's insertion of 'under God' in the Pledge. This was done because of the Red Scare and false belief that no Commie believes in God. What ended up happening here is no benefit. Instead we have American polytheists and American Atheists discriminated against within the base of what Americans should be agreeing.

Another problem is for many years the President has had special funding for churches. A law supporting government funding of religious institutions was vetoed by James Madison. This sort of special funding is picking religious 'winners' supported by all of us. It's never treated beliefs equally, is against the founding, and should be cut out immediately. (Ahh good conservative principle -don't spend!)

Then, of course, schools are a problem. They're a problem more so from an unclear interpretation of the law. What I gather from you is Florida is really bad at giving equal treatment for Muslims and Christians. Any religion should be treated equally. And of course those schools that push prayer of a diety on events are government organizations driving prayer. Certainly a destruction of religious freedom and unclear separation.

The US military has had it's noteable problems too. 'Gangs' of Christians appear to be ostarcizing not only people of other faiths but other Christian sects. And in a land where the law reads 'No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification for any office or as public trust under the United States' - various things such as the Army's Fitness Tracker, guage a solider's 'spirtuality'. Bzzt!

These are but a few examples of thow the separation of church and state is destroyed, because it just ain't happening. It's something we all as citizens need to be more viligalent about.

"religion and government will exist in greater purity, without (rather) than with the aid of government. " - James Madison.

 

[faethor]

And 99% of statistics are made up. Sorry, that 85% is laughable at face value.

I'd agree 85% is probably low. Many people use birth control, such as the rhythm method, against the teaching of the church. If my personal sampling has any weight the women are 100% pro-birth control before wedlock. (Men, no personal sample data for me to use there.)

Who the hell is Obama and his cronies to tell employers what they may or may not offer to their employees as a benefit?

I hear your criticism that the law as a whole is illegal. If the law isn't legal then it really doesn't matter what it says. Do note I did spell out that 'assume the law is legal'. That gets us into the discussion of what is legal within the law itself.

However, if contrary to your opinion the law is legal then it's certainly legal for the government to establish the legal baseline requirements. They do that since inception of the nation.


And if we allow the Catholic Church, and likely Mullah's agree,that birth control is bad and the government does so only because those religious institutions are saying to make it so would be allowing a church to come before the state. The net result here is religious forced doctrine driving the law. The Founders would be spinning in their graves.

Could you imagine the law reading - no healthcare, no blood transfusions, no nothing because there's a another religion that says that so? All the Hospitals are closed and the doctors out of a job because the US let the religion dictate the law. People would go nuts at losing their individual right to freedom. And just as well people should be shouting out against losing their individual right to freedom to allow a different church that same sort of power.

 

[Dammy]

I'd agree 85% is probably low. Many people use birth control, such as the rhythm method, against the teaching of the church. If my personal sampling has any weight the women are 100% pro-birth control before wedlock. (Men, no personal sample data for me to use there.)

How many Catholic males (1 day old to 99+ years old) use birth control? I'm willing to bet it's pretty minimal so let's focus on females who are the most likely to use birth control (other then being told no since that's free!). Exactly how many females are of child bearing age? Last time I saw a catholic church letting out, look like mostly elderly so lets say about 1/3 of 50% is too old to have children. I highly doubt you are going to find too many female children on birth control (since half of the children are not of child bearing age yet) so knock it down another 15% of the 50% female Catholic population. That means the total population is down to what, 30% of total population of the Catholic church is on birth control.

How do you explain 85% when that would mean a fair number of females outside of child bearing age would be on birth control that would do nothing for them?

And if we allow the Catholic Church, and likely Mullah's agree,that birth control is bad and the government does so only because those religious institutions are saying to make it so would be allowing a church to come before the state. The net result here is religious forced doctrine driving the law. The Founders would be spinning in their graves.

Please, they would be spinning in their collective graves on what Obama and his administration is attempting to do. They set up a government system that was limited in it's nature and clearly wanted the US Government not to dictate to the Churches on what the Churches find morally objectionable to. Religion (which they did not specify) is a key to the whole US Constitution. Without believing in the Creator, the US Constitution is meaningless piece of paper.

Could you imagine the law reading - no healthcare, no blood transfusions, no nothing because there's a another religion that says that so? All the Hospitals are closed and the doctors out of a job because the US let the religion dictate the law. People would go nuts at losing their individual right to freedom. And just as well people should be shouting out against losing their individual right to freedom to allow a different church that same sort of power.

Problem is this is not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is forcing a religion to enter into a third party contract in which that contract violates their religious beliefs. That power was never granted to the executive branch. I'm wondering what is next, a new dictate from Obama admin stating that any Islamic Hospitals must included none Halal food such as pork for their employees to purchase? Banning any insurance policy from covering male circumcisions? Where does the hatred of religion by the Progressive bureaocrats stop at?

If you want to insult those who follow a given religion, force more dictates on them, it'll do you so well in the next election.

 

[faethor]

That means the total population is down to what, 30% of total population of the Catholic church is on birth control.

Our numbers are answering two different questions. You're trying to track only those that have used birth control in close proximity to today. What I'm stating is the percentage of Catholics who have partaken in birth control at any point during their life. FOR EXAMPLE: You don't count Grandma in her 80s because she's too old to be bothered with that stuff. I count that Grandma because 60 years ago when first married her and her husband used some types of birth control because they didn't want to chance a baby immediately.

So when the question is posed what % of Catholics have used some form of birth control at some point during their life indeed the answer is the vast majority. Which according to their church is against doctrine.

Please, they would be spinning in their collective graves on what Obama and his administration is attempting to do. They set up a government system that was limited in it's nature and clearly wanted the US Government not to dictate to the Churches on what the Churches find morally objectionable to.

I disagree. The Founders realized that the Churches were dissimilar organizations and no one religion was to win the control of the nation. When we let Catholics dicatate law that we who are not Catholic must follow their morals in the written law of the US that is indeed the Church surplanting the state as the supreme power over our lives. T

Religion (which they did not specify) is a key to the whole US Constitution. Without believing in the Creator, the US Constitution is meaningless piece of paper.

There's no reference to a Creator in the US Constitution. Perhaps you're thinking of the Declaration of Independence. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness" -- in this sense it's the Creator gives men the rights to rule themselves. The Creator in the Declaration doesn't demand men rule by the Creator's law.

Problem is this is not what we are talking about. What we are talking about is forcing a religion to enter into a third party contract in which that contract violates their religious beliefs. That power was never granted to the executive branch.

First it's not only the Executive Branch it's the Courts who made their rulings nearly a decade ago. Second we demand religions follow our laws all the times. Certainly Satanists don't get free reign to kill whomever they want nor Mormons to marry more than 1 wife.

Banning any insurance policy from covering male circumcisions? Where does the hatred of religion by the Progressive bureaocrats stop at?

I agree that circumcision is an unnecessary medical procedure and since we're covering valid medicinal procedures it should be exempt. So if your religion wants to cut the tip of your dick off there's no medical benefit to this and thus it should be exempt from medical coverage.

As for hatred of religions it's the opposite. What Catholics want should not be mandated into law. There are many other Christian religions where birth control is perfectly acceptable. And it's a medical benefit to use protection in sexual practices. Read up on the spread of AIDS due to Catholic mandated practices in Africa. My question to you is since you want Catholics to dictate law to you what other faiths are acceptable? Will your wife wear a fashionable Hijab because a different church is demanding that for every woman too.

want to insult those who follow a given religion, force more dictates on them, it'll do you so well in the next election.

Then hurrah for your side!

Though if the polls are any indication you are wrong. The Catholics polled on this even the majority are backing Obama. Which really is no surprise as the majority of them have used birth control in their lifetimes. "A poll by the Public Religion Research Institute found that support among Catholics at 58 percent, slightly higher than that of the overall public overall at 55 percent. "

 

[cecilia]

all you have to do is observe how many catholic families have 9 kids these days.......it's RARE. most catholics I am aware of have about 1, 2 or 3. In fact, the higher their income level the less likely they are to have more than 2.