22,000 Polish soldiers killed by the Nazis

FluffyMcDeath

Active Member
Member
Joined
May 17, 2005
Messages
12,256
Reaction score
2,693
have now been killed by Stalin.

Because reality is political. Once we hated Hitler and needed Stalin to help defeat him. Now Hitler is gone and it's OK to hate Russia and admit they did this.
 
Once we hated Hitler and needed Stalin to help defeat him. Now Hitler is gone and it's OK to hate Russia and admit they did this.

Then why not a little sooner?
 
Then why not a little sooner?
Indeed. It was admitted in the 80s, no? The Soviet Union was falling, Yeltsin was "our" drunken clown and the west was all about helping the oligarchs rape Russia.

For the most part, though, we've gotten great mileage out of comparing every baddie to Hitler so a super-bad Hitler has been good. I guess a scary Stalin is better though for giving the heebie-jeebies to some eastern European types ... like Ukrainians, for example.
 
Indeed. It was admitted in the 80s, no? The Soviet Union was falling, Yeltsin was "our" drunken clown and the west was all about helping the oligarchs rape Russia.

For the most part, though, we've gotten great mileage out of comparing every baddie to Hitler so a super-bad Hitler has been good. I guess a scary Stalin is better though for giving the heebie-jeebies to some eastern European types ... like Ukrainians, for example.
hitler-puppy.jpg
 
For the most part, though, we've gotten great mileage out of comparing every baddie to Hitler so a super-bad Hitler has been good. I guess a scary Stalin is better though for giving the heebie-jeebies to some eastern European types ... like Ukrainians, for example.

Stalin's Terror

Stalin could always count on Western intellectuals to champion how progressive he was


Forced collectivisation would lead to the starvation of millions, to the imprisonment of millions more. Hundreds of thousands would be simply murdered in hidden courtyards, after confessions extracted by torture and contemptible sham trials. Stalin encouraged a bizarre class struggle, creating a group of "rich peasants" named "kulaks" and labeling them as oppressors, which simply set the very poorest peasants against those who, say, had an extra cow or the like. The big landowners had been driven off or otherwise dealt with and so the war against the kulaks was almost a complete fraud, a way of terrorizing all the peasants and shrewdly using petty envy as a weapon in the terror.

By the end of 1929, forced collectivisation was in full force in the Ukraine and the northern Caucasus. Arrests were made in a million households, with fathers sent off to new forced-labor camps and the families deported to Siberia. The first wave swept off the more prosperous level of the peasantry. In the winter of 1930, the sweep went lower, scything through the poorer peasantry. 120 million people in 600,000 communities were confronted with expropriation, eviction, and transportation. An internal passport system kept the movements of the peasantry under control. They would go where Stalin wanted them to go and nowhere else.

The terror was carried out by special food detachments, recruited from young men from the towns who had few attachments to the peasantry, and the increasingly powerful security apparatus, then known as the "OGPU", originally Lenin's "Cheka". There were many small uprisings, all of which were brutally crushed. A million peasants died of starvation in the north Caucasus. Five million died in the Ukraine when their grain disappeared into the Soviet apparatus. Villages became ghost towns. Three million men went into the network of prison camps that was at first known by the acronym "STON" (which translates literally into English as "Moan") and would later become known as the "Gulag". There they would work on everything from canals to power plants to the Moscow subway, building a new Soviet state on their blood and bones.

Most would be worked to death within a few months of their arrival, reduced to "camp dust", as the saying had it. Stalin needed prisoner labor to achieve his goals. There was no need to worry about their well-being. Calculations were performed to show that it was more economically cost-effective to work prisoners to death over a few months on a starvation diet than to keep them alive. Those that survived would usually be broken for the rest of their lives, their health ruined and their heads full of a disorderly jumble of realities and fantasies: when realities are more terrible than nightmares, it becomes impossible to tell the two apart. As for those who died in endless ranks, there were still many more where they came from, and if the ones that fell were also people who were suspected of not being completely obedient, so much the better.

In January 1933, German elections swept the Nazi Party and Adolf Hitler to victory. Hitler, and in his reflection the Nazi Party, was rabidly anti-Bolshevik, anti-Jew, and anti-Slav. Oddly, Hitler had no great ideological objection to Communism, and there were ex-Communists in the ranks of the Nazis who Hitler thought highly of because they possessed the inclination to violence and ruthlessness that he found so admirable. His problem with Communism was that he believed it was a Jewish conspiracy.

Stalin took his cue from Adolf Hitler. Hitler had been helped to power by Ernst Roehm and his Brownshirt SA thugs, but once power had been achieved, Roehm's enemies gradually turned Hitler against him. Hitler moved against the SA in a swift stroke known as the "Night Of The Long Knives", and personally executed Roehm in a Munich cell. The neat operation was directed by Reinhard Heydrich, a rising star in Hitler's personal force, known as the "Schutzstaffel" or "SS", crystallizing around Heinrich Himmler.
Stalin found the Night of Long Knives inspirational, reputedly commenting: "Hitler, what a lad! Knows how to deal with political opponents!" However, Stalin's approach was a little more devious. Six months after the Night Of The Long Knives, on 1 December 1934, Kirov was assassinated by an OGPU agent named Leonid Nikolaev. Some sources suggest that Nikolaev had actually acted on his own and not on Stalin's orders, but if the murder was a spontaneous act, it was extremely convenient for Stalin. When Bukharin was called on the phone and told of Kirov's murder, he put down the phone and said: "Now Koba will shoot us all."
 
Stalin could always count on Western intellectuals to champion how progressive he was


Leaders of other nations are routinely lionised by "Western intellectuals".
Stalin was far from alone in this regard and far from alone in being a mass-murdering scumbag.
 
Stalin's Terror

Stalin could always count on Western intellectuals to champion how progressive he was

Much of the depictions of leaders foreign and domestic are caricatures for political purpose. Saddam wasn't Hitler, Gaddafi wasn't Hitler and Adolf Hitler wasn't Hitler. Had the allies lost the war then Churchill and henchmen like bomber Harris would be the recipients of our worthy scorn.

Meanwhile the commander in cheif of the most powerful military empire and supreme surveillance state with its star chambers, secret laws and secret courts run for the benefit of a plutocratic few is criticized for being too "Liberal"!
 
As far as I know, most Western nations never liked Stalin nor post-Stalin USSR or even modern Russia. Even in WW2 they never liked Stalin really, they just had a common enemy and managed to work together. The US supplied Stalin with arms and Stalin repaid them with breaking all his promises after the war. The US probably should have allowed Patton to invade the USSR, but hind site is 20/20.

At any rate, covering up Stalin's atrocities in Poland is small potatoes compared to the war at large - assuming there was a cover up at all. As for digging this up to make Russia look bad, that's actually quite laughable considering they admitted it themselves in the 90s. This article doesn't tell us half as much as you think it does as those eye witnesses were POWs, meaning, they didn't communicate their eye witness accounts until after Germany surrendered. And that's all they were, just eye-witness accounts that carry all the problems that all eye-witness accounts do. And although Stalin did declare war on Japan shortly after, that was about the extent of his actions against the Imperial empire. Was there a cover up, quite possibly, and it would have been wise to cover it up perhaps, but what has that to do with today?
 
have now been killed by Stalin.

Because reality is political. Once we hated Hitler and needed Stalin to help defeat him. Now Hitler is gone and it's OK to hate Russia and admit they did this.

Seems your reality has undergone Stalinist revisions

The Katyn forest area of Poland was under Soviet control until the Nazi's discovered the graves in early 1943, after the Nazi invasion of the Soviet Union.

The Nazi-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact was signed in 1939. Stalin drank a toast to Hitler. The pact had several secret clauses, one of which acknowledged the right of USSR to occupy the Baltic States, with the Soviet Union paying Germany a large sum in compensation for Hitler's claims in Lithuania. Another secret clause detailed the partition of Poland. Soviet Anti-Fascist propaganda was ordered stopped immediately, the term "Fascist" was banned from soviet public media, and would not resurface again officially for two years.

After the treaty was signed, Germany attacked Poland, the USSR attacked Finland
 
Seems your reality has undergone Stalinist revisions

The Katyn forest area of Poland was under Soviet control until the Nazi's discovered the graves in early 1943...


WhooooooSH!
 
Leaders of other nations are routinely lionised by "Western intellectuals".
Stalin was far from alone in this regard and far from alone in being a mass-murdering scumbag.

Lionizing Stalin, and hiding his crimes, was going on long before WW2, and still is going on today

Walter Duranty, reporter for the New York Times, won a Pulitzer Prize in 1932 for a series of regurgitated Stalinist propaganda stories of the Soviet Union, reporting that The Nation described as "the most enlightened, dispassionate dispatches from a great nation (USSR) in the making which has appeared in any newspaper in the world."

In a New York Times article dated 23 August 1933, Walter Duranty wrote, "Any report of a famine in Russia is today an exaggeration or malignant propaganda." even while it was clear from his personal exchanges that he was fully aware of the scale of the famine in the Ukraine

Stalin himself praised Duranty, saying that Duranty "(tried) to tell the truth about our country."
 
Much of the depictions of leaders foreign and domestic are caricatures for political purpose. Saddam wasn't Hitler, Gaddafi wasn't Hitler and Adolf Hitler wasn't Hitler. Had the allies lost the war then Churchill and henchmen like bomber Harris would be the recipients of our worthy scorn.
Maybe, maybe not. Hitler wasn't loved by all Germans, but he was feared by all of them. It's partly why he killed so many of them and why some of those in his closest inner circle tried to kill him. If Germany won the war they'd persecute people irregardless of their deeds, that is certain. But also certain is that the German third rich would have crumbled from within - way less than a thousand years.
 
Back
Top