A Mac Quandry... (What would you do?)

[Wayne]

Hi guys,

Taking PC's completely off the table (I won't give Microsoft another dime) and understanding that I'm not a Linux/BSD fan, I have a quandry and would love some input..

As some of you may know, due to the economy, I took a temporary position in another city. Access to the net is severely restricted from work, and from the hotel it's wifi only, which is a so-so signal to begin with.

I'm currently working from my Dell Hackintosh Mini 9, which is just fine for doing stuff like e-mail and ebay, but not much else. I even bought a $99 20" monitor for it and I've hooked it to my mouse/kb, so it's pretty cool, just completely underpowered.

That leaves me with a few choices, but I really am torn. About 2 weeks ago now, I did the Best Buy trade-in on my 20" iMac and got a $469.00 gift card in return. My original intent was to put that towards a Macbook Pro 13" base model, which should do me fine, but feels rather short sighted.

Here's what I can figure out as my choices (using the BB gift card);

Buy a 2.26ghz 13" Macbook Pro w/2 gigabytes of RAM and a 160gb drive

Cost out of pocket : $826.00

Pros
- laptop which can be used anywhere.
- webcam/mic for vodcasting
- 7 hour battery life
- immediately available at BB Huntsville

Cons
- cost
- can't upgrade processor
- costly to upgrade RAM/HD since it's pretty much a sealed system and requires a technician to upgrade. Parts alone would be as expensive as just buying the bigger macbook pro to start with.

Buy a 2.53Ghz 13" Macbook Pro with 4GB RAM and 320GB hd

Cost out of pocket : $1150

Pros
- laptop can be used anywhere
- webcam/mic for vodcasting
- 7 hour battery life
- no need to upgrade it to anything later
- plenty of room/space for anything to work.
- immediately available at BB Huntsville

Cons
- 6-bit screen (252k colors instead of 8-bit screen on larger laptop)
- initial expense

Buy a 2.53Ghz 15" Macbook Pro with 4GB RAM and 320GB hd

Cost out of pocket : $1360

Pros
- laptop can be used anywhere
- webcam/mic for vodcasting
- 7 hour battery life
- no need to upgrade it to anything later
- plenty of room/space for anything to work.
- larger monitor so I could actually use it for more realistic tasks while travelling.
- immediately available at BB Huntsville

Cons
- largest initial expense

Buy a 2.53Ghz Mac Mini with 4GB RAM and 320GB hd

Cost out of pocket : $450

Pros
- by far the cheapest option
- no need to upgrade it to anything later
- plenty of room/space for anything to work.
- can be used with the 20" monitor I already own

Cons
- would have to be special ordered from the web site (2 more weeks waiting!)
- trouble picking it up since I'd have to wait for the weekend then HOPE UPS was open on Saturday
- NOT a laptop / can't be used anywhere, but I already have the Dell Mini 9 for VERY basic tasks anyway.
- NO webcam/mic for vodcasting
- requires several things, like a USB Hub, and carrying the monitor around with me to various locations to be really used as a desktop replacement.

 

[faethor]

Don't forget the swap option. Perhaps someone on Craigslist will swap you their 2 year old Mac, or MacBook, for your Best Buy monies. I see some 2 year old 15" MacBook Pros going here for $500.

Out of the 3 options I think I'd do the 13" notebook and upgrade to a Flash Drive.

BTW any idea when the i5 MacBook Pros will be out. This fall perhaps?


In related news Hackintosh Dell 10v

 

[Wayne]

I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in on this. I even thought to ask "Bueller.... Bueller...", but I thought up three more options;

1) Save the gift card and buy an iPad with it when available.
Pros
- new toy, potentially the most fun.

Cons
- no real computer to work with now
- no guarantee the iPad will be any more useful than the hackintosh.
- can't design buttons.
- can't do vodcasts.
- can't play Call of Duty or WarCraft.

2) Violate my rules and just buy a "disposable" PC laptop.

Pros
- cheaper

Cons
- less usable than the Hackintosh
- supports Microsoft, if even incidentally.
- can't design buttons without buying extra software.
- can't do vodcasts easily.

3) Tough it out and put the money towards a new big screen LED TV or Refrigerator.

Pros
- either option would be more overall useful in the real world as I'd use either every day (once I get home)

Cons
- doesn't help the fact that I have nothing to really work with right now.
- can't design buttons.
- can't do vodcasts.
- can't play Call of Duty or WarCraft.
- can't watch youtube or videos/dvds

 

[ltstanfo]

Buy either a new MacBook Pro (you decide screen size) or get a last gen (like mine) MacBook Pro that you can easily expand (RAM, HD). Either will cost more than a Mac Mini but you will get more out of it.

Decision made... Master Shake commands you!

Regards,
Lee

 

[ilwrath]

I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in on this. I even thought to ask "Bueller.... Bueller..."

Well, I read it, but kinda kept quiet. My opinion was if you're limiting yourself to Mac, you're already condemned to pay more for a new computer than I'd be willing to these days. A few months ago, for under $600 I bought a new Core i5 750 (Quad core and hackintosh capable, if I wanted to), LGA1156 h55 chipset motherboard, 4GB RAM (DDR3-2000), and a GeForce 250 (all good brands -- not junk). Threw them together with the SATA drive, optical drive, case, and power supply I had. So for the cost of a base Mac Mini I have a full workstation that'll go toe-to-toe with anything out there. (Or I could have splurged and replaced the drives, case, and p/s too, driving up the cost to that of an expanded Mac Mini.) When faced with a bang-for-buck deal like that... I don't think I could choose a Mac at all. (And I can show you the revised price list on NewEgg if you don't believe me.)

I'd say get the new LED TV or the fridge. That way you can watch some nice looking movies/TV or drink a nice cold beer, without wondering why you paid 2x as much to get a badge of a fruit.

 

[Glaucus]

If you're opting for a new expensive TV, might as well wait for Sony to release their latest TVs with 3D technology. I remember you mentioned you have a PS3 and the word on the street is that a new firmware upgrade will give the PS3 the ability to do whatever it needs to do to support 3D movies. I'm sure it's more then a rumor, Sony has demoed and promised 3D games and they should be coming out later this year. I believe Avatar will be released in 3D. Just a thought. Regardless, under the cons for the TV option you mentioned:
- Can't play Call of Duty
- Can't watch Youtube

Well, once you hook it up to your PS3 you sure can! Also, if you eventually decide to build a HTPC you could use a large screen TV as a PC monitor and use a wireless keyboard and mouse from the comfort of your couch. Technically, you could install Linux on your PS3 and just use that to surf the web with Firefox or install GIMP or whatever you use to make website graphics, etc.

EDIT: I remember you saying something about not liking the PS3 controllers, something about them being too small. No problem, just get one of these: Frag Pro. My budy has the older, wired version and he loves it. We play Battlefield 1943 together and we're always fighting for top score. Lots of fun. :mrgreen:

 

[Wayne]

Qu

I'm surprised more people haven't chimed in on this. I even thought to ask "Bueller.... Bueller..."

Well, I read it, but kinda kept quiet. My opinion was if you're limiting yourself to Mac, you're already condemned to pay more for a new computer than I'd be willing to these days.

I understand people's reliance on the chant about the "mac penalty" but as I've shown and proven to Lee, if you compare Oranges to Oranges -- in this case Macbooks to something like Sonys or the upscale Dell Adamo (sp?) then there really isn't a penalty.

The comparable Sony/Dell Adamo is the same exact cost (or even more) than its similarly specc'd macbook pro.

The object of whatever I buy (computer-wise) is to be able to use it while travelling or in meetings. I'm essentially living 3 months in a hotel room here, and need distraction. The Dell Mini 9 isn't fast enough (think 1.6ghz Pentium 4) to do anything realistic.

As for your core 4 quad and all that, I have access to a 4-core, dual processor Xeon machine with 16gb of RAM and not one, but two 2.5GB video cards. Even with all that, frankly I'm amazed at how slow it is at running Windows Vista.

MUCH slower than my 3.06 c2d iMac under snow leopard...

Yes, maybe it number crunches faster, but the fact is that even with "8 cores" at it's disposal, it's still a 2 gigahertz machine. Using the interface is mental anguish, but that's Windows I guess and not the hardware's fault.

Alas, I am a Mac guy. Due to the stories I've shared a thousand times before, I just can't bring myself to give Microsoft another dime of my own money, no matter what technical hardware advances it might bring.

If Apple would bring the OS to commodity hardware, I'd be in heaven, but alas, that too will never happen.

Until then, I'm ok with the idea of investing a little more money in a laptop, desktop, tablet, or cellphone that I know will last me 3x (or more) longer than the average low-ball PC equivalent. The iPhone in my pocket for example is nearing 3 years old and I still find it the most useful device I've ever owned -- by far..

For example, my former 20" iMac was over 3 years old and going strong, having NEVER, NOT ONCE needing to be scratched and reloaded (unlike my Windows box which required a rebuild about twice every single year)...

In fact, the only reason I bought a newer, bigger, badder mac was because I felt the technological advances (2x the memory, 40% larger screen, 4x the hard drive, 33% faster CPU, etc) warranted the purchase. Well that, and the trigger of the cheap price that Best Buy quoted (and the Apple store matched).

How many people here can claim that they've been running the same exact windows load for 3+ years without any problems or needing upgrades?

 

[faethor]

3) Tough it out and put the money towards a new big screen LED TV or Refrigerator.

One of my friends has a refrigerator with a touchscreen computer in it. Yes it is microsoft driven. You could get both a computer and a refrigerator.

 

[ilwrath]

I understand people's reliance on the chant about the "mac penalty" but as I've shown and proven to Lee, if you compare Oranges to Oranges -- in this case Macbooks to something like Sonys or the upscale Dell Adamo (sp?) then there really isn't a penalty.

But that only holds true if you buy cutting edge hardware. Personally, I'd rather buy slightly back from the bleeding edge, and replace it sooner. It works out cheaper, overall, without much performance penalty. I mean, for the $1,700 of a base MacBookPro 15" model, I can buy a $750 Asus now, and another one 3 years from now, and still pocket $200 in savings.

Lets break it down. Sure, the $1,700 MacBookPro rocks when its new. But it takes a couple years for anything to come out that really utilizes that hardware, so the cheaper $750 laptop model does reasonably well during this time, despite it being decidedly short on the stats war.

Now, 3 years in, the $1,700 MacBookPro is still going great, but that $750 laptop is looking quite long in the tooth. Of course, you still have $950 in your pocket, so you just buy a new $750 laptop. By now, technology has progressed such that a $750 laptop has better stats than the $1,700 laptop of 3 years ago.

So now you're good again, performance-wise for 3 more years, while the $1,700 laptop owner starts dealing with dying battery cells, a 5+ year old screen, badly worn hinges, and all sorts of other maladies.

Plus it hedges my bets in case I drop it, spill something on it, it gets stolen, whatever. Over the course of 6 years, not buying at the leading edge gives you the performance when you need it, an insurance policy, $950 extra in your pocket for 3 years (buy a 3 year CD with this for an extra $50 return?), and $200 extra in your pocket for the entire duration.

Of course, if you want a $750 laptop from Apple, you're stuck buying used (which means someone else already dropped it, spilled something on it, or stole it, or it's already 4 years old). Whereas I can pick up a really nice new Asus laptop in that price range. So the "Mac Penalty" isn't just a mantra, it's pretty easily provable in TCO.

How many people here can claim that they've been running the same exact windows load for 3+ years without any problems or needing upgrades?

Hmm... Actually, I've had a few Windows boxes with installs lasting 3+ years. My XP workstation ran XP Pro for 3 years with only one upgrade (which was completely unnecessary to function -- I updated the Video card once the one I wanted came down in price). My Windows 2003 server is on its original build, dating over 4 years, now, and it's on 24x7x365, serving TiVo Desktop, Video, Red5, FTP, OpenSSH, uTorrent, ffmpeg, and who knows what other crazy stuff I do to it... Never had a glitch. (outside TiVo Desktop occasionally barfing, and it's not even supposed to work on Server 2003 at all!) If your build of Windows is routinely becoming unstable, you're doing something wrong.

Now, don't get me wrong... I do _TOTALLY_ understand paying a premium to run what you like. Apple makes nice hardware, and OSX is slick. Don't get me wrong. It's just that that premium is a lot higher than I'd be willing to pay, which is why I didn't comment, at first.

 

[minator]

Re: Qu

How many people here can claim that they've been running the same exact windows load for 3+ years without any problems or needing upgrades?

My PowerBook did me longer than that. It wasn't exactly problem free though - the HD died, but then so did the replacement I fitted a while later. The 3rd HD was fine though. I did upgrade the RAM but other than the HD it worked fine for 4 1/2 years.

I don't understand Apples way of making hardware, on some (Like my MacBook 13") it is an absolute doddle to change things. On some (like my old G4) you have to dismantle the entire thing.

Luckily however http://www.ifixit.com provides free guides for doing all this.

Anyway, to your question. I have a 13" unibody MacBook (they didn't call it Pro for some reason) since november 2008 and it's a great machine. I upgraded it to 4GB when I got my Camera (5DMkII) as it produces massive images. You just need the right memory (don't buy it from Apple), it looks fairly easy to upgrade the current Pro's memory.

I don't think the MacBooks have been updated in a while so it might be worth waiting a while, if they use i5s or whatever they should be a good bit faster.

I'd like a new 15" machine as well but the 13" is just fine for everything I do - including editing 1080p video and 21 Megapixel RAW images...

 

[minator]

So the "Mac Penalty" isn't just a mantra, it's pretty easily provable in TCO.

You do pay more for Macs but sometimes it's not that much of a difference. My sister got a Dell about the same time for half the price with a faster processor.

Well, thats how it looked. I looked in the specs and actually the Mac has a 45nm CPU with a big cache and a fast memory bus. The Dell has a smaller cache, slower memory bus and is 65nm. My processor runs both faster and cooler.

The biggest difference however is OS X, that's what you really buy Macs for.

My work machine runs XP and it was recently upgraded to machine that is probably 6 - 8 times faster. The apps run nice and fast now, but it made no difference whatsoever to Windows.

OTOH OS X has been increasing in performance since it first shipped.

 

[Wayne]

I mean, for the $1,700 of a base MacBookPro 15" model, I can buy a $750 Asus now, and another one 3 years from now, and still pocket $200 in savings.

I can totally buy your argument, save for one glaring problem with it. That problem is -- IMNSHO -- Windows itself. If you're OK with spending all your time trying to get a fubar OS to actually do the task (Windows) versus spending all your time actually doing it (OS X), then that's fine too.

I just find that MacOSX -- for me -- is far more intuitive and easy to deal with. Much more like the Amiga I grew up on in a lot of ways, but I just don't spend 1/50th the amount of time worrying about computer problems on the Mac as I did the PC.

The old Amiga addage of "plug it in, if it doesn't work, it's broke" applies to the modern macs.

Not arguing your choice at all. Very valid arguments on your part.

Trust me, if I could tolerate Windows I would easily take your direction, but after getting royally screwed by Microsoft 3 years ago, they'll never get another dime from me.

If I could find a decent spec PC laptop which is as hackintoshable as my dell Mini 9, I'd even go that route. Unfortunately I've checked, and none of them are compatible on the same level as the Mini 9/Vostro A90 or the Mini 10v (which is discontinued)..

It's not about the name "Apple". It's not about the hardware specs. It's about how Macs make me feel like I did when I actually liked computers all those years ago..

*That* I'm willing to pay for.

Wayne

 

[JoBBo]

1) Save the gift card and buy an iPad with it when available.
Pros
- new toy, potentially the most fun.

Cons
- no real computer to work with now
- no guarantee the iPad will be any more useful than the hackintosh.
- can't design buttons.

I am slightly puzzled why you think the iPad is not suited for design work. First of all, during the introduction of the iPad they demonstrated a paint application that I consider 'desktop-quality' even though it is obviously not as feature-rich as Adobe Photoshop. It is not unrealistic to expect that more applications of the same type will be developed for the iPad. So, in terms of software, the iPad should offer all the basic functionality most people, including many professionals, would need to design graphics.

Second, the iPad has a decent display panel. In case that sounds not very special, let me clarify: The iPad belongs to the 0.1% of large-screen mobile computer-like devices that use either an IPS or P/MVA panel, thus can be viewed from pretty much any angle without noticing changes in a picture's contrast, saturation and color tinting.

For serious designers, it is incredibly difficult to find any laptop that does not have TN panel. Often enough, you have to buy second-hand machines because the number of manufacturers who offer laptops with *VA or IPS panels has actually gone down and not up in the last few years and the cost of new equipment is usually through the roof. This is very much unlike the situation for desktop monitors, by the way.

Obviously, the general consensus appears to be that laptops are for "fun" and desktop machines are for work, which explains why DELL and HP, for example, are selling many IPS / *VA desktop monitors but not a single laptop with anything but a TN panel (not even as part of their expensive business series).

For the record, I do own a 13 inch Macbook (not a Pro). Compared to other laptop displays, it has definitely one of the better ones. I have never had any issues when browsing the web, watching video, etc. However, I have had to do smaller graphics work while being on the road (with no external monitor around like at home) and I hated every minute of it because the result looked quite different as soon as I moved my head ever so slightly, which made work with subtle color tones especially frustrating.

Why Apple, who prides itself on developing products for designers, is capable of putting an IPS panel into a 499 USD tablet but not into its arguably expensive laptops (Pro or not) is beyond me. Right now, they are not selling a single laptop that would fulfill the needs of any serious photographer, painter, etc. even though the use of IPS panels would help them to clearly differentiate their laptop models from others, justify a premium price and attract new buyers. Case in point, I know an Apple-hating designer who is seriously looking at the iPad just because of the excellent display panel type. (That being said, things used to be even worse. Afterall, they used to be selling iMacs with TN panels for many years before they switched to IPS.)

 

[Wayne]

I am slightly puzzled why you think the iPad is not suited for design work.

You do have valid points, and -- let's be honest -- how many people here actually believe for a single, solitary second that I *won't* buy an iPad within the first month after the 3G models hit?

My concern is based on what *I* do, which is web dev, using Fireworks to create novelty buttons, and play games like Call of Duty 4. Having just spent one month using a Dell Mini 9 as my primary computer (work cpu is severely restricted), I find that the 1.6ghz Atom just fails at common tasks like Fireworks or such. While it'll run Dreamweaver, as you can imagine, it's rather slow.

So.. Take the idea of a 10" screen and no tactile keyboard and you begin to understand my concerns.

I'm not saying it won't be useful. Hell, the iPhone is the most useful device I've ever owned, but... I wouldn't use it to write a novel on.

Only time will tell

Wayne

 

[JoBBo]

I do not disagree with your choice in the slightest, I was just wondering about the specific comment about "button design". Despite the low-performance ARM processor, I think the iPad is quite interesting for many design tasks for the reasons I mentioned.

 

[faethor]

I know it's late but did you or are you getting rid of the Hackintosh Mini 9?

 

[Wayne]

Sold it to Argo. Sorry.

 

[faethor]

Thanks for the update