ACORN In The News - Have They Been Caught?

ltstanfo

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The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN has been in the news alot lately, among other reasons because of reported ties with Obama and work he may have done with them in the past (I'm not even going to bring up the alleged financial aspect).

In any event, they are suddently getting alot of (unwanted) attention:

Missouri officials suspect fake voter registration

Las Vegas Alleges Fraud, Authorities Raid Voter Group

Reported Case of Ohio Voter Scam

It must be election season. :wink:

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
ltstanfo said:
The Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, or ACORN has been in the news alot lately, among other reasons because of reported ties with Obama and work he may have done with them in the past (I'm not even going to bring up the alleged financial aspect).

In any event, they are suddently getting alot of (unwanted) attention:

Missouri officials suspect fake voter registration
"It's par for the course," he said. "When you're doing more registrations than anyone else in the country, some don't want low-income people being empowered to vote. There are pretty targeted attacks on us, but we're proud to be out there doing the patriotic thing getting people registered to vote."

As to the Obama ties ... no sound at start
 
As if it isn't enough....

Acorn registers Mickey Mouse to vote!

Ohio catches bogus voter and up to 4000 others are suspect!

Also in Ohio a teenager filled out 73 cards for Acorn!

As if to prepare for the prepare for the predicted onslaught, the Obama campaign is trying to distance itself from Acorn, despite past (loose) associations.

And the news goes on...

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
ltstanfo said:
As if it isn't enough....

Duplicate and fraudulent (or joke) registrations are not a big problem as they get weeded out. They are usually spotted by ACORN itself but they are required by law to pass on all registrations that are filled out. Therefore, blame the law. But, on the other hand, it is a proper law as it prevents correctly filled out registrations from being discarded which is a much more serious problem.
 
Yes, you are correct, fluffy

This is a world of difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud. I don't think there has been a single case of a vote being cast that was based on a fraudulent voter registration. They always get weeded out, one way or another. ACORN actually has a pretty good system for weeding out the fraudulent registrations, and they cooperate with the authorities in any prosecutions of voter registration fraud.

The number of actual cases of voter fraud in recent years has been almost zero. If memory serves, the number of successful prosecutions has been less than ten. It remains a sacred cow for many conservatives though, which is one of the reasons that the Bush administration pushed the various U.S. Attorneys so hard to prosecute voter fraud cases. I think ACORN is one of many community organizations that have tried to assist people in their attempts to register to vote, just like Catholic Charities. My own mother worked with various voter registration drives here in Alabama back in the late 1960's.

Speaking of campaigns and their relationship to ACORN, you do know that McCain himself was a supporter of the organization for a long time, right Lee?

Video of McCain at an ACORN rally in Florida in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_y2KwbhBJo
 
Re: Yes, you are correct, fluffy

eleventhma said:
This is a world of difference between voter registration fraud and voter fraud. I don't think there has been a single case of a vote being cast that was based on a fraudulent voter registration. They always get weeded out, one way or another. ACORN actually has a pretty good system for weeding out the fraudulent registrations, and they cooperate with the authorities in any prosecutions of voter registration fraud.

The number of actual cases of voter fraud in recent years has been almost zero. If memory serves, the number of successful prosecutions has been less than ten. It remains a sacred cow for many conservatives though, which is one of the reasons that the Bush administration pushed the various U.S. Attorneys so hard to prosecute voter fraud cases. I think ACORN is one of many community organizations that have tried to assist people in their attempts to register to vote, just like Catholic Charities. My own mother worked with various voter registration drives here in Alabama back in the late 1960's.

Speaking of campaigns and their relationship to ACORN, you do know that McCain himself was a supporter of the organization for a long time, right Lee?

Video of McCain at an ACORN rally in Florida in 2006:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_y2KwbhBJo

Yep, I knew about the McCain "connection" with ACORN. To my knowledge it has never been a "secret". Thanks for the link though. ;-)

Regards,
Ltstanfo

PS: Glad to see you back on the site. :-)
 
Here's the real reason for all those stories.

Obama opens 14 point lead

The Republicans need a PR campaign to undermine the validity of the electorate so they can purge obama voters. They can't game the machines enough to cover this spread and they need to move the numbers on eligible voters (by reducing the number of eligible voters).
 
They also need a reason to delegitimize the increasingly likely Obama landslide on election day.
 
eleventhma said:
They also need a reason to delegitimize the increasingly likely Obama landslide on election day.

Speaking of results on election day, here's something that likely would have scrubbed Obama votes.

Big Presidential Vote Count Error Found and Fixed in New Mexico.

Interesting how the machines can be vulnerable to "mistakes" in definition files. I'm not saying that it wasn't a mistake, I'm not saying either way, but it is interesting that someone could easily insert a "mistake" in this file which would be able to make count changes on a district by district basis and would not show up in the code of the machine itself. Just another vulnerability that points to how hackable these electronic systems are.
 
And the beat goes on...

As many as 200,000 new voters may be suspect in Ohio. While some are certainly typo errors what are the others?

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
eleventhma said:
They also need a reason to delegitimize the increasingly likely Obama landslide on election day.

That is one way of looking at it... :roll:

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
are people investigating those DIEbold computers where there is no paper trail and way more likely to have voter fraud??

that shit scares me!
 
ltstanfo said:
And now the FBI is investigating....

EDIT - Slightly off topic but still related... Washington State allows up to 24,000 felons to vote?

Regards,
Ltstanfo

From the kiro article:

Jonathan Bechtle is an attorney at a conservative think tank, the Evergreen Freedom Foundation. He thinks we have found a significant flaw and one that could affect a close election.

And that is the crux of the question. Poorer people are more likely to run afoul of the law because the law tends to be against them. That's because the laws tend to be written by people further up the social ladder.

I don't know what HAVA states or whether it sets national standards for felon voting but up until 2000 at least, most states allowed those who have served their sentences to vote.

In Canada the courts have determined that people currently serving prison sentences are entitled to vote and that legislation that would prevent this is counter to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Since prisoners are still citizens they are entitled to a vote (and since they are subject to the government they have the right to representation).

With incarceration rates reaching 1% there are a considerable number of votes that would be electorally significant.
 
Lee, Lee, Lee

You do understand what the differences are between fraudulent voter registration, voter fraud, and election fraud, right?

Many of ACORN's detractors seem to think that just because some moron registers to vote as Mickey Mouse means that he will actually get to VOTE as Mickey Mouse. It doesn't work that way. In most states (possibly all of them) any organization that registers voters is required BY LAW to turn in ALL completed voter registration forms, even ones that are obviously fraudulent. What most of those organizations do (I know Catholic Charities did this and I am pretty sure that ACORN does it too) is that it separates out from the main pile any registrations that look fraudulent, and turns those in to election officials with the caveat that they are probably fraudulent and should be investigated. Then the authorities can investigate further if they so choose.

The fact that this is being pushed so hard is, to me, an indication of just how concerned many conservatives are about Obama winning. Registering people to vote is a good thing, and it should not be discouraged. But as more people register to vote, especially people at the lower end of the economic ladder, the more likely it is that there will be more Democratic voters, and hence the reason why so many conservatives hate get-out-the-vote efforts.

Now, actual voter fraud can mean several things. It can mean that someone is voting under someone else's name (like claiming to be a person that is actually dead), or it might mean that someone is voting more than once, or it might mean that some other act of fraud relating to voting has been committed, such as claiming that you live at a particular address when you don't, and thus basing your voter registration on something that isn't true. After doing some research, I discovered that for the entire United States over the last five years, the number of actual voter fraud cases that were prosecuted and resulted in a conviction was pretty damn small - less than 100. But there were a lot more instances of accusations and such, many of which had no basis in fact. This is what led to the whole scandal with the Bush administration firing those U.S. Attorneys. They wanted convictions for voter fraud, but many of the USAs (all of them Republicans and all of them appointed by President Bush) could not find any evidence of voter fraud taking place, and they refused to trump up charges. So the Bush administration fired them, and replaced them with people who were more compliant to the administration's wishes. The fact that so many accusations and charges are being leveled just before the national elections should be troubling, and if you think that these accusations aren't a form of political intimidation, you are kidding yourself.

The fact that no one in the government seems to care as much about election fraud, as opposed to voter fraud, should be REALLY troubling. Voter fraud is generally a vote here and a vote there and almost never swings an election, at least in recent American history. On the other hand, election fraud (ballot box stuffing, losing ballots, changing vote totals, etc.) can dramatically affect the outcome of an election. There is some pretty convincing evidence that election fraud took place in several places in recent years, such as in Georgia in 2002. In Georgia's case a patch was applied to computerized voting machines in two counties (and only those two counties) that were overwhelmingly black and Democratic. These patches were supposed to fix a system time synch problem, but they didn't. That got the attention of a few voting officials. And the election results for these counties showed a large number of votes that swung towards Sonny Purdue for Governor and Saxby Chambliss for Senator. The election results in these counties made no sense, and they did not match up with exit polls, which are the most reliable way of knowing whether or not an election is legitimate. Exit polls are used in foreign countries to determine whether or not an election is fraudulent, and so the idea that those polls are good for other countries but somehow don't work here in the U.S. is ridiculous. And the idea that thousands of black Democratic voters would suddenly decide to vote Republican (especially for Perdue or Chambliss) is also ridiculous.
 
Re: Lee, Lee, Lee

eleventhma said:
You do understand what the differences are between fraudulent voter registration, voter fraud, and election fraud, right?

Yes Geoff, I do and thank you for asking. :wink:

Since the FBI is now apparently investigating I will be satisfied with results of their findings. Everything else (at this point) can be argued either way (IMO).

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
ltstanfo said:
And now the FBI is investigating....

EDIT - Slightly off topic but still related... Washington State allows up to 24,000 felons to vote?

Regards,
Ltstanfo

From the kiro article:

Jonathan Bechtle is an attorney at a conservative think tank, the Evergreen Freedom Foundation. He thinks we have found a significant flaw and one that could affect a close election.

And that is the crux of the question. Poorer people are more likely to run afoul of the law because the law tends to be against them. That's because the laws tend to be written by people further up the social ladder.

I don't know what HAVA states or whether it sets national standards for felon voting but up until 2000 at least, most states allowed those who have served their sentences to vote.

In Canada the courts have determined that people currently serving prison sentences are entitled to vote and that legislation that would prevent this is counter to the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Since prisoners are still citizens they are entitled to a vote (and since they are subject to the government they have the right to representation).

With incarceration rates reaching 1% there are a considerable number of votes that would be electorally significant.

1. Do you suggest that we let the "poorer people" write the laws. People who write the laws can do so because that can spell L-A-W. If the "poorer people" want to write laws then they can work the butts off and get a college degree.

2. Nobody cares about Canada. Next.

3. Incarcerated people should not have the right to vote. They are criminals.

4. It is illegal to lick door knobs on other planets.
 
James T Kirk said:
1. Do you suggest that we let the "poorer people" write the laws. People who write the laws can do so because that can spell L-A-W. If the "poorer people" want to write laws then they can work the butts off and get a college degree.

Gene Roddenberry would not have concurred.
 
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