Activist Judges

faethor

faethor

Active Member
Moderator
Joined
Aug 25, 2005
Messages
5,144
Reaction score
1,243
Here's one for you. Judge orders parents to change baby's name . She determined calling the baby Messiah is unacceptable. The Mom's attorney should have asked to cite the State or Federal law this falls under. As dumb as Messiah may seem to the Judge there's nothing to legally empower the Judge to strike a baby's name. One Christian vs another Christian about what their deity says or means the orders accordingly is unimportant. The Judge is to be following the law, and when there is no law the Judge has no right to create their own rule.
 
I have a friend whose kid is named Odin. Does that count?

Actually the same friend I worked with about a decade ago in a cubical farm. The 'neighbor' cube was highly Christian and explained how offensive it was to him when we took the Lord's name in vein. We decided to switch deities each day. Then after a month asked him why he wasn't offended about all the other gods we were calling out in vein. I think it was a good week before he said a peep to us. ...And that was fine.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
The Judge is a frikken moron!!
'only Jesus Christ earned that title'
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ didn't earn anything. He self bequeathed the title. ;)

As for the 'false messiah' claim there's insufficient evidence to even give him that much credit. Jesus, as portrayed in the Bible, didn't exist. He's an amalgam of stories assigned to a character. He's a fable, not much different than Paul Bunyan. Aspects of the stories may be true but the best lies always have a wisp of truth.
 
I agree that the judge's comments about jesus are silly, however, if what the judge says about titles not appropriate for names is valid, then he/she might have a point. If the names "doctor" or "captain" are also not allowed because they are titles, then I guess messiah would fall into that category. We could argue that it's a title that no one will ever have, but that's a different argument. Names that are demeaning are also not allowed, you shouldn't be allowed to name your daughter "slut" for example. One could argue "messiah" is demeaning to the kid which is probably a hard sell but probably true in some cases.

Either way, I feel sorry for the kid.
 
We do have freedom of speech. That freedom includes the ability to say and do really stupid things. I, too, feel bad for the kid. But, there's no legal basis to make 'Messiah' a forbidden name. I don't believe titles are disallowed. King Banaian is one such example Europeans nations - Sweden, Iceland, Germany, and likely others - have some laws about what's legal or illegal to name your kid. If we want freedom of speech we should have no such laws. Heck we allow Lucifer why would we not allow Messiah?
 
Does your child's name really fall under freedom of speech? Names are actually restricted, if not of humans but of corporations and other entities. I can't name a company Sony for example, freedom of speech won't help me there.

And freedom of speech can be trumped by other freedoms and rights. In this case it could be the best interests of the child.

It's an interesting legal issue.

Traditional Greek culture has a very different view on this. In my parents generation the parents wouldn't be the ones naming the bay. In fact, the baby would not even have a name until it was baptized (fully immersed in water at around 9-12 months). The name would be picked by the god parent and it would be revealed at the ceremony itself. The parents wouldn't even be at the ceremony. It was tradition for some other child, once the name was spoken, to run to the parents house to inform them of the name of their baby. The first to convey the message would then receive a treat as a reward. Of coarse, the priest conducting the ceremony could also reject the name and substitute his own choice. What ever was spoken by the priest during the ceremony was the child's name, and all names belong to the Greek orthodox namespace. And that's kinda important because Greeks don't really celebrate birthdays but name days instead. Each name would have a special date for people to celebrate people of that name. Michael is November 8th for example. But if the priest allowed a name outside of the church, like say an ancient Greek name such as Agamemon, that kid would lose out on that and no one would ever celebrate his name day. It would be like not celebrating your birthday. But times have changed since then and people can do whatever and parents actually pick the names, but for the most part the names are still traditional orthodox.

I should also note that name days aren't celebrated until you're baptized. We named out daughter Sophia which is perfectly acceptable, but my parents wouldn't celebrate her name day until she was baptized. So she'll celebrate it this September for the first time even though she was born July 2012. Weird huh?
 
Glaucus said:
Does your child's name really fall under freedom of speech? Names are actually restricted, if not of humans but of corporations and other entities. I can't name a company Sony for example, freedom of speech won't help me there.
Click to expand...
The USA, hasn't yet, reached the point that corporate persons can lock up a name. People with the name McDonald can still go about using that last name. And certainly you can name your kid Sony.

It's an interesting legal issue.
Click to expand...
Being the USA has no laws around acceptable, or unacceptable, naming of offspring it's really not a legal issue. Perhaps it should be made one. Until it is the Judge has no right to assume a law and claim a power other than what is granted to her by the State.

As for Greek Orthodoxy naming an interesting tradition. I think in the USA most hospitals require you to have a name for your baby when you leave. I don't know if there's an actual law requiring that. Either way, in this case the kid had a name upon leaving so the Judge couldn't have any beef with any existing law there either.
 
Faethor, if there are no laws then one could argue that the state could choose the name for every single baby. It's a crazy idea, but once you consider that the names are all recorded by the state, and from the state's point of view that's the main purpose of a name, they could lay ownership on the names and do the name choosing. That would be a really bad idea but if, as you say, there are no laws then could be perfectly legal and doable. I'm guessing there has to be some kind of law or guideline for that.

I imagine if a parent really wants to mess with the system they could do something really crazy. Like name their kid an irrational number. Hi, my name is 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286 208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481 117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233 786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006 606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146 951941511609433057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548074462379962749 567351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440656643086021394946395224737190 702179860943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132000568127145263560827 785771342757789609173637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923 542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998372978049 951059731732816096318595024459455346908302642522308253344685035261931188171010 003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303598253490428755468731159562863882 353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198938095257201 065485863278865936153381827968230301952035301852968995773622599413891249721775 283479131515574857242454150695950829533116861727855889075098381754637464939319 255060400927701671139009848824012858361603563707660104710181942955596198946767 837449448255379774726847104047534646208046684259069491293313677028989152104752 162056966024058038150193511253382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796 782354781636009341721641219924586315030286182974555706749838505494588586926995 690927210797509302955321165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566369807 426542527862551818417574672890977772793800081647060016145249192173217214772350 141441973568548161361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334547762416862 518983569485562099219222184272550254256887671790494601653466804988627232791786 085784383827967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117392984896084128488 626945604241965285022210661186306744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917 287467764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099465764078951269468398352 595709825822620522489407726719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203496 252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515709858387410597885959772975498 930161753928468138268683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680845987273 644695848653836736222626099124608051243884390451244136549762780797715691435997 700129616089441694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506016842739452267 467678895252138522549954666727823986456596116354886230577456498035593634568174 324112515076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867228748940560101503308 617928680920874760917824938589009714909675985261365549781893129784821682998948 722658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364542858444795265867821051141 354735739523113427166102135969536231442952484937187110145765403590279934403742 007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713868751943506430218453191048481005 370614680674919278191197939952061419663428754440643745123718192179998391015919 561814675142691239748940907186494231961567945208095146550225231603881930142093 762137855956638937787083039069792077346722182562599661501421503068038447734549 202605414665925201497442850732518666002132434088190710486331734649651453905796 268561005508106658796998163574736384052571459102897064140110971206280439039759 5156771577004203378699360072305587631763594218....

Well, just from memory but close enough. ;)
 
Glaucus said:
Faethor, if there are no laws then one could argue that the state could choose the name for every single baby. It's a crazy idea, but once you consider that the names are all recorded by the state, and from the state's point of view that's the main purpose of a name, they could lay ownership on the names and do the name choosing. That would be a really bad idea but if, as you say, there are no laws then could be perfectly legal and doable. I'm guessing there has to be some kind of law or guideline for that.

I imagine if a parent really wants to mess with the system they could do something really crazy. Like name their kid an irrational number. Hi, my name is 3.141592653589793238462643383279502884197169399375105820974944592307816406286 208998628034825342117067982148086513282306647093844609550582231725359408128481 117450284102701938521105559644622948954930381964428810975665933446128475648233 786783165271201909145648566923460348610454326648213393607260249141273724587006 606315588174881520920962829254091715364367892590360011330530548820466521384146 951941511609433057270365759591953092186117381932611793105118548074462379962749 567351885752724891227938183011949129833673362440656643086021394946395224737190 702179860943702770539217176293176752384674818467669405132000568127145263560827 785771342757789609173637178721468440901224953430146549585371050792279689258923 542019956112129021960864034418159813629774771309960518707211349999998372978049 951059731732816096318595024459455346908302642522308253344685035261931188171010 003137838752886587533208381420617177669147303598253490428755468731159562863882 353787593751957781857780532171226806613001927876611195909216420198938095257201 065485863278865936153381827968230301952035301852968995773622599413891249721775 283479131515574857242454150695950829533116861727855889075098381754637464939319 255060400927701671139009848824012858361603563707660104710181942955596198946767 837449448255379774726847104047534646208046684259069491293313677028989152104752 162056966024058038150193511253382430035587640247496473263914199272604269922796 782354781636009341721641219924586315030286182974555706749838505494588586926995 690927210797509302955321165344987202755960236480665499119881834797753566369807 426542527862551818417574672890977772793800081647060016145249192173217214772350 141441973568548161361157352552133475741849468438523323907394143334547762416862 518983569485562099219222184272550254256887671790494601653466804988627232791786 085784383827967976681454100953883786360950680064225125205117392984896084128488 626945604241965285022210661186306744278622039194945047123713786960956364371917 287467764657573962413890865832645995813390478027590099465764078951269468398352 595709825822620522489407726719478268482601476990902640136394437455305068203496 252451749399651431429809190659250937221696461515709858387410597885959772975498 930161753928468138268683868942774155991855925245953959431049972524680845987273 644695848653836736222626099124608051243884390451244136549762780797715691435997 700129616089441694868555848406353422072225828488648158456028506016842739452267 467678895252138522549954666727823986456596116354886230577456498035593634568174 324112515076069479451096596094025228879710893145669136867228748940560101503308 617928680920874760917824938589009714909675985261365549781893129784821682998948 722658804857564014270477555132379641451523746234364542858444795265867821051141 354735739523113427166102135969536231442952484937187110145765403590279934403742 007310578539062198387447808478489683321445713868751943506430218453191048481005 370614680674919278191197939952061419663428754440643745123718192179998391015919 561814675142691239748940907186494231961567945208095146550225231603881930142093 762137855956638937787083039069792077346722182562599661501421503068038447734549 202605414665925201497442850732518666002132434088190710486331734649651453905796 268561005508106658796998163574736384052571459102897064140110971206280439039759 5156771577004203378699360072305587631763594218....

Well, just from memory but close enough. ;)
Click to expand...


heh heh thats funny... :lol: or "alpha and omega"... or "one" i saw a comedienne on tv say that black people should have google in the delivery room so that when they got to naming the child loquetia, google would say "did you mean jane?"...
 
Glaucus said:
Faethor, if there are no laws then one could argue that the state could choose the name for every single baby.
Click to expand...
The overriding law is that the Fed/State/Local cannot regulate until there is a law on the books. So in the case here if there are no restrictions passed and signed by the appropriate body of law makers then they cannot take action. Of course, that doesn't mean people get a bit power hungry (aka Judge) and try to do it anyway. But, without the law to fall back on technically they don't have anything to enforce.

For example, MN Birth Certificate law requires the County in which the infant be born be recorded on the Certificate. They don't enable the State to decide the name. So the State can neither accept nor reject a name for any reason. They must enter whatever the parents give. Including PI.
 
Glaucus said:
Hi, my name is 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288...
Well, just from memory but close enough. ;)
Click to expand...
Geek!!

So if you gave your kid an unpronouncable symbol as a name you could get around the name registry system? Like Prince did when he had that contract dispute with Warner Bros?
 
So there you go, there are laws regarding names. I guess what I was trying to say is that most people probably have no idea if there are laws or not, and even if there are they may be very old ones and fallen out of use. Having said that, I have no intention of volunteering my time or money to find out.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Geek!!

So if you gave your kid an unpronouncable symbol as a name you could get around the name registry system? Like Prince did when he had that contract dispute with Warner Bros?
Click to expand...
At least Prince gave that unpronounceable name to himself. And then he ended up changing it back to his original, pronounceable one.

Btw, you missed an obvious tid bit here: Prince's name is....... :drumroll: a title! So the argument that names can't be a title is a weak one.
 
faethor said:
I have a friend whose kid is named Odin. Does that count?

Actually the same friend I worked with about a decade ago in a cubical farm. The 'neighbor' cube was highly Christian and explained how offensive it was to him when we took the Lord's name in vein. We decided to switch deities each day. Then after a month asked him why he wasn't offended about all the other gods we were calling out in vein. I think it was a good week before he said a peep to us. ...And that was fine.
Click to expand...
well, THAT is just brilliant.
A) Odin is a great name for anyone!
B) It always cracks me up that Christians don't realize they are "atheists" in regard to all other gods - just not their equally unproven fairy tale

aside from the FSM I like to 'invoke' a variety of my favorite gods including Ra, various Greek gods, Kali ("KILL FOR THE LOVE OF KILLING", Thor .......etc

there's so many to play around with
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top