After years of backbiting from from EU, USA bails them out yet again.

[redrumloa]

As if the USA did not have enough problems, Obama decides we must bail out the even worse off EU yet again.

Obama pledges cooperation in euro debt crisis

Unreal! Thanks a lot Obama

 

[the_leander]

Actually you can thank the Greeks, who view tax avoidance as a national pastime, coupled with around 30 odd years of just spending without any income by successive governments.

As for the Euro... If it gets much worse I can see Greece having to revert back to it's previous currency in order to stay afloat if this keeps up.

 

[redrumloa]

Actually you can thank the Greeks, who view tax avoidance as a national pastime, coupled with around 30 odd years of just spending without any income by successive governments.

As for the Euro... If it gets much worse I can see Greece having to revert back to it's previous currency in order to stay afloat if this keeps up.

I'm sure you noticed my post was a bit over the top. That said, if EU is a true Union why does the US need to bail out a single country? EU has 27(?) member states, the US has 50(plus Puerto Rico and DC). I have always seen the basis for the EU as very weak and this only solidifies my opinion.

 

[the_leander]

I'm sure you noticed my post was a bit over the top. That said, if EU is a true Union why does the US need to bail out a single country?

I did, however compared to many of the statements in our press about having to bail out other peoples countries when our own economy is in the shitter, your comment was actually kind of tame.
Back to the story: Because the EU member states are sick of having to bail out basket case economies like Greece and Ireland. I put up a thread on this site a few days ago that went into this in detail.

But long story short: Nationalism within the EU states is on the rise and the grand ideal of a European superstate is history. Now watch as the whole house of cards falls in on itself as each state's leaders shore up their own countries interests at the expense of everyone elses.

I have always seen the basis for the EU as very weak and this only solidifies my opinion.

What you have to understand is that I have always shared this opinion.

 

[Robert]

The basis for the original idea of the EU (or BeNeLux) was actually very sound, as has been borne out over time.

The expansion, single currency, etc, is a different story.

 

[the_leander]

The basis for the original idea of the EU (or BeNeLux) was actually very sound, as has been borne out over time.

The expansion, single currency, etc, is a different story.

Agreed - a common market was and remains a sound idea.

 

[redrumloa]

I did, however compared to many of the statements in our press about having to bail out other peoples countries when our own economy is in the shitter, your comment was actually kind of tame.
Back to the story: Because the EU member states are sick of having to bail out basket case economies like Greece and Ireland

Great! For some reason at times I worry about coming off like an ass. Luckily that thought does not pass my mind too often

The whole bailout issue in the USA has become so common that most people shrug their shoulders any time it is brought up. I hate to say but the general population on your side of the pond are probably much more in tune to what is going on. The USA throwing money at the EU problem will probably get less air time then what the recent American Idol winner is doing. I have been forming the opinion that we are all screwed. How can we not all be screwed when no one agrees with what their gov is doing?

What you have to understand is that I have always shared this opinion.

You will admit this, others won't

 

[the_leander]

I have been forming the opinion that we are all screwed. How can we not all be screwed when no one agrees with what their gov is doing?

Oh we are all screwed, I just don't think it's because of this. We'll get through this after a while and with some effort.

No we're all screwed because when the oil runs out it's likely starvation will wipe out 5/6ths of the worlds current population.

You will admit this, others won't

I still remember the pastings I received when I aired such views on AO in the past.

 

[cybereye]

No we're all screwed because when the oil runs out it's likely starvation will wipe out 5/6ths of the worlds current population.

I think some EU got a head start prepare for when oil get scare. The US as a whole is behind with EU and some state are pushing to do something about the oil. If the trend keep going as it is in the next 40 years or so then EU and maybe US able to get a softer blows from the oil runs out. If oil run out 10 to 30 year from now then I agree with your statement that we are screwed. I do not believe oil will be like an off switch.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

If oil run out 10 to 30 year from now then I agree with your statement that we are screwed. I do not believe oil will be like an off switch.

Return on investment is falling off a cliff. 30 years ago we were extracting 100 barrels of oil for the energy input of one barrel of oil. World average is closing in on 10 to 1. Oil sands gets you about 3 to 1. When it takes you one barrel of energy to extract one barrel of oil then it's game over for oil. There may still be a materials market for oil but the amount of energy needed to extract the stuff will have to come from something other than oil.

Oil won't turn out like a light but it will relatively abruptly start heading vertical in price. Each time it jumps up people will curtail their use of oil and that is what will make oil last longer but there will rapidly come a time where it is just physically impossible to use oil for energy and since we use energy to make our food and bring it to our mouths we will be in serious trouble.

The transition will happen fairly rapidly in historical terms once it is under way, and once it is recognised to be under way it will have been under way for a while. If you stick your head under water you can last quite a while without breathing but as the crisis approaches it becomes apparent. The actual loss of consciousness happens very quickly and after that, death is all but inevitable.

 

[cybereye]

Return on investment is falling off a cliff. 30 years ago we were extracting 100 barrels of oil for the energy input of one barrel of oil. World average is closing in on 10 to 1. Oil sands gets you about 3 to 1. When it takes you one barrel of energy to extract one barrel of oil then it's game over for oil. There may still be a materials market for oil but the amount of energy needed to extract the stuff will have to come from something other than oil.

Oil won't turn out like a light but it will relatively abruptly start heading vertical in price. Each time it jumps up people will curtail their use of oil and that is what will make oil last longer but there will rapidly come a time where it is just physically impossible to use oil for energy and since we use energy to make our food and bring it to our mouths we will be in serious trouble.

I agree.

The transition will happen fairly rapidly in historical terms once it is under way, and once it is recognised to be under way it will have been under way for a while. If you stick your head under water you can last quite a while without breathing but as the crisis approaches it becomes apparent. The actual loss of consciousness happens very quickly and after that, death is all but inevitable.

In my view, many people do recognized and few people are working on that problem with the skills they have. If that trend continues as times goes more and more people will start innovation ways of using energy without oil. People start innovation when they feel pain. People start thinking ways to get cheaper and use less energy. 30 years ago government demand less energy usage in cars and force cars companies lower MPG. Now government is trying to encouraging people (people don’t like force) in their country to slowly wean off oil. 50 years from now, People still use oil for energy, but not as much as it is now and more for chemical substances rather than energy. So let the pains begin!