Americans must love their bubbles.

[Wayne]

Some of you might know I've been looking for a late-model American sedan to replace my Mazda pickup. No real reason, as my truck isn't falling apart or anything, but I just wish I had something more comfy for the commute, as well as the occasional thousand-mile trip home.

In essence, I'm looking for a 2000 - 2005 Ford Crown Vic, Mercury Grand Marquis, Lincoln Town Car, or even an older, two-door Lincoln Mark VIII with reasonable mileage (50-80k). These cars are usually driven by older people, and babied, so it's not unusual to see them pulling 150 - 200k miles or more.

Typical prices for these vehicles are between 4000 and 10k on eBay with the KBB retail value being a bit less.

Today, out of sheer boredom, I ended up driving up "used car alley" here between Chesapeake and Virginia Beach. Found several cars that might fit the bill, but one turned into an absolutely hilarious story..

Suzuki dealer in Chesapeake, "Lil Joe's Suzuki" had a 2000 Ford Crown Victoria (black). 58,000 miles on it. Nothing special, but it had obviously been well detailed. Mix-matched interior (tan seats, grey interior, which indicates a rebuild or replacement seats).

I knew what they wanted, but out of curiosity, I asked anyway. The answer, which I found SO hilarious was "10,900 is the finance price". I knew what they wanted, because they had the car on eBay with a price of $9900. I just wanted to go by in person (it's 3 miles from the apartment) to see if it had gold bricks in the trunk or something.

All this being said, I know and accept that right now there is a "used car bubble" wherein dealers are fscking over people who don't do their homework quoting the law of supply and demand. I get it. People cannot afford $50,000 new cars and they don't want to lease a car, so they buy used. The economy also isn't helping.

The problem, and the source of my humor is that when he looked at my truck, he said he'd only give me $1800 for it because that's "Kelly Blue Book trade-in". Cool. Whatever. However... The "Kelly Blue Book" retail value for the Crown Victoria, even if it were in FLAWLESS condition is only $5700. Being in good condition, that falls to $5200.

I know... shock. A used car dealer trying to rip people off. I get it, but my only response to this guy was to say "thanks, good luck with that" then turn on my heels and laugh raucously all the way back to my truck.

The search continues..

 

[Argo]

I've been recently looking for a new vehicle and found much the same. Even for private sales. Trucks galore. Even last years model. Why did you buy it? You had to know with the price of gas and the MPG of a truck how much it was going to guzzle in gas! Very few cars. I think alot of people are holding on and fixing the vehicle they have that gets decent mileage.
Fortunately, I was looking for something in between a truck and car. I need the cargo space. Ended up with a 1998 Jeep Grand Cherokee. Original for sale sign listed $3000. That was crossed out and $2500 listed. Paid $2000. Lists on Blue Book for $2600-ish in average condition. This was slightly short of what I'd say is average. It'll be worth the $3000 when I get it on the road later this week.

Yeah, there is a bubble centered old used cars that get good to decent MPG. The by back program a few years ago destroyed alot of old cars.

 

[Wayne]

My particular truck right now is a 4-banger Mazda 2300 and it gets around 23-26 mpg most of the time. It's in decent shape and gets me from point A to B well enough, except when point B is 1000 miles away, like trips home.

I totally understand the utilitarian nature of a pickup. "You don't ever have to haul anything, until you do" sorta thing but between the 5-speed transmission and the lack of interior space, the B2300 just isn't what I "want".

Meanwhile, I'm restricted by a couple of things. Cash-on-hand, which is providing to be difficult to save considering I'm a 1099 contractor (pay all my own taxes and have no benefits) and the fact that the contract I'm on "officially" ends in November. Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE expects the contract to be picked up, but that doesn't mean that my contract will, even though I'm pretty well liked.

Essentially, that means no financing anything. While I could go out and buy whatever I want, it'd be stupid to do so. As such, my goal is to find a comfy car, which isn't run into the ground, and has a history of lasting a couple-hundred-thousand miles (as a platform) for under 10 grand.

That leads me to vehicles like the Grand Marquis, which are seemingly abundant, and well-taken-care of by their owners which tend to be older and retired (and don't drive much). There are dozens of examples of the car I'm after on eBay, but again, people are bidding what they're worth. Owners are wanting far too much in reserve for them.

Like most things in my life, my timing sucks. What I suppose I will end up doing is sitting here, socking money away until after November's contract turnover. By that point, if I'm fired, I have a little money saved up. If I'm hired, I get to go shopping with a little bit more cash on hand and hopefully by then, everyone will have come to their frickin senses.

Wayne

 

[metalman]

The unintended consequences of Cash for Clunkers.

The cash for clunkers program removed 700,000 cars from the used-car market. By ordering that a trade-in's engine be destroyed, Cash for Clunkers also sharply reduced the salvageable used parts available to keep other older vehicles running.

Automakers have cut back on volume sales to rental car companies, as well as on those lease deals, that used to end up on the used car market within a year to 18 months.
The March earthquake in Japan, produced shipment delays of Japanese vehicles and parts and curbed production in the United States.

The index of wholesale used-car prices rose 5.6% in May 2011 relative to May 2010. Meanwhile, prices at auto auctions for compact cars jumped 20% last month relative to a year ago, reflecting shortages and high gas prices. The wholesale prices of midsize cars rose 14.4%.

The basic fallacy of cash for clunkers is that you can somehow create wealth by destroying existing assets that are still productive.

Cash for Clunkers hurt lower income consumers who purchase used vehicles instead of new.

 

[redrumloa]

I was saying something similar in another thread recently. There certainly is a used car bubble right now that has even spread into muc of theh new car market. Only the worst gas hogs are not seeing inflated prices. Fuel efficient cars are seeing stupid markups lately. Over on a TDI forum I sometimes visit, there are members claiming to have sold their TDI car recently for $5k over Kelly Blue Book.

 

[cybereye]

You better short the used cars market, Redrumloa, with the TDI car that you have. Take your son's bike to work when time is right you may able to buy another used car at a cheaper price and pocket the different. The plus side of ride the bike is that you save money from gas and car insurance and you lose weight as well.

 

[Wayne]

Yeah, TDI vehicles are one thing. Big-assed Fords, Lincolns, and Mercury's are another. Ah well. Not the time to buy. I get it, but for someone who's as "american" (ie - spoiled) as I have been all my life, "no" is a particularly large pill to swallow.

 

[redrumloa]

Yeah, TDI vehicles are one thing. Big-assed Fords, Lincolns, and Mercury's are another. Ah well. Not the time to buy. I get it, but for someone who's as "american" (ie - spoiled) as I have been all my life, "no" is a particularly large pill to swallow.

You can thank Obama and Japan's devastation. My oldest son just bought a car from the most established, but still somewhat sketchy, local independent car lot locally a couple weeks ago. The lot is about half empty. The oldest car on the lot was probably a 2000 model with most being 2004 and newer. This lot calls itself "Anything on Wheels" and historically would sell anything that could start up and run long enough to drive off the lot. Those days are gone it seems as a side effect of Obama's hair brain scheme.

 

[cybereye]

You can thank Obama and Japan's devastation. My oldest son just bought a car from the most established, but still somewhat sketchy, local independent car lot locally a couple weeks ago. The lot is about half empty. The oldest car on the lot was probably a 2000 model with most being 2004 and newer. This lot calls itself "Anything on Wheels" and historically would sell anything that could start up and run long enough to drive off the lot. Those days are gone it seems as a side effect of Obama's hair brain scheme.

"Side effect of Obama's hair brain scheme" as "cash for clunkers" is more of a hiccup in the automotive markets. There may be another side effect is that average $30,000 new cars are overprice for many people and banks are not giving many loan for new cars. . I would say Japan devastation may cause the most, but not knowing the full reason of the full effect of that used cars market.