.. and so it begins (the war on soda)

[Wayne]

Nutter expected to tax sugary drinks, set trash fee

http://www.philly.com/philly/news/local/86128462.html

Mayor Nutter, balking at cutting "core services" and running out of ways to raise money, is expected to balance next year's budget with a steep tax on sugary drinks and a $300 annual residential trash fee, sources familiar with the plan said yesterday.

City Councilman W. Wilson Goode Jr. said he anticipated a 2-cent-per-ounce tax on sweet drinks as part of Nutter's 2010-2011 budget, to be presented tomorrow. That's $2.88 on a 12-pack of soda cans.

"Nutter" is the right description, but it brings up a valid point about how this country will start looking to cross-tax everything, from food to "health tax" (where restaurants pass along their costs for providing insurance for their employees).

 

[redrumloa]

"Nutter" is the right description, but it brings up a valid point about how this country will start looking to cross-tax everything, from food to "health tax" (where restaurants pass along their costs for providing insurance for their employees).

Just wait until the Federal gov is running health care.

-Edit-
Think how people would have reacted in the 1950's if you would have told them ciggarettes would be $7-$12 a pack, they would have called you crazy. Adjust 1950's cig prices for inflation and it is no where near that price. Most of the cost of cigs are now tax.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Adjust 1950's cig prices for inflation and it is no where near that price. Most of the cost of cigs are now tax.

And I'm completely OK with that.

 

[Glaucus]

Think how people would have reacted in the 1950's if you would have told them ciggarettes would be $7-$12 a pack, they would have called you crazy. Adjust 1950's cig prices for inflation and it is no where near that price. Most of the cost of cigs are now tax.

Care to venture a guess as to why that would happen in a country proud of it's private health care system?

 

[cecilia]

while I don't care for the gov poking it's nose into private business, I frankly have NO sympathy for cigarette smokers and soda drinkers.

that shit will kill you. and society in one way or the other pays for it.

people who have respect for themselves and their fellow human beings will do everything they can to keep healthy.

accidents are one thing, but poisoning yourself over years is very much preventable.

so americans had better stop their whining and suck it up

 

[redrumloa]

Adjust 1950's cig prices for inflation and it is no where near that price. Most of the cost of cigs are now tax.

And I'm completely OK with that.

And vegetarians would be OK with a 1,000% tax on meat, but would you?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

And I'm completely OK with that.

And vegetarians would be OK with a 1,000% tax on meat, but would you?

I eat too much meat anyway. It would be a good excuse to eat less of it.

 

[Glaucus]

Personally I don't like the idea of a sin tax. Using taxes to herd people away or towards behaviors is a misuse of power.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Personally I don't like the idea of a sin tax. Using taxes to herd people away or towards behaviors is a misuse of power.

All power involves getting people to do what they otherwise wouldn't. All power is an abuse of power.

 

[redrumloa]

Personally I don't like the idea of a sin tax. Using taxes to herd people away or towards behaviors is a misuse of power.

Bingo. I don't smoke and I haven't drank a non-diet soda in ~7 years or so. It is all about that slippery slope. There is already plans to put hardware in your home to report back to the gov your enegry consumption, next will be RFID readers in the fridge and cameras in the bedroom.

 

[redrumloa]

All power involves getting people to do what they otherwise wouldn't. All power is an abuse of power.

But you are OK with a meat tax? That was very un-Fluffy of you Fluffy.

 

[Glaucus]

Well I obviously didn't think through my choice of wording then. Let me fix it:

Personally I don't like the idea of a sin tax. Using taxes to herd people away or towards behaviors is not what taxes are for.

As for power itself, love it or hate it, mankind has evolved in such a way that it's impossible to live with out it. All social creates have a hierarchy of domination.

 

[redrumloa]

As for power itself, love it or hate it, mankind has evolved in such a way that it's impossible to live with out it. All social creates have a hierarchy of domination.

That doesn't mean you bend over and ask for the pounding.

 

[Glaucus]

As for power itself, love it or hate it, mankind has evolved in such a way that it's impossible to live with out it. All social creates have a hierarchy of domination.

That doesn't mean you bend over and ask for the pounding.

Not sure why you think I'm advocating submission. I'm just saying it's natural for us humans to be abusive. And domination and abuse aren't always a negative: The Story of O.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

As for power itself, love it or hate it, mankind has evolved in such a way that it's impossible to live with out it. All social creates have a hierarchy of domination.

It's not just mankind. Many species have found the same solution. It might be harder to maintain such high population densities without a hierarchy. There is advantage in being able to co-ordinate many people but the flip side is that everyone except the very top person loses some autonomy. The question is how much autonomy are we willing to trade to get better society. Out in the boonies, not much - not much reason to quite frankly, there's plenty of room to do as you please without stepping on toes. Cities are different. If there isn't enough room to swing a cat without hitting someone in the face with it then perhaps it's best to outlaw cat-swinging and too bad for the whiners who think that cat-swinging defines them.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

There is already plans to put hardware in your home to report back to the gov your enegry consumption

That seems redundant. Your utility company already has that equipment attached to your house to report back your energy usage. The only reason for the government to install their own equipment would be to see if there is a difference between what the utility says you use and what you actually use.

[...]cameras in the bedroom.

Don't leave your laptop open!!!

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

But you are OK with a meat tax? That was very un-Fluffy of you Fluffy.

Sin taxes are much better than outright bans. Of course, if there was a tax on breathing air, then there'd be a problem - but it would be hard to justify such a tax. The test of the tax is whether or not the intended behaviour change is beneficial (and whether the actual behaviour change resulting is beneficial).

Sin taxes should take into account externalized costs. Lots of people drinking pop results in lots of health problems for the consumers and results in aquifer degradation and pollution by the manufacturer and is a terribly inefficient way to get potable fluids into peoples' bodies. And how many brittle bones and diabetic complications are going to end up in emergency costing you dollars directly?

Manufacturers who pollute should also be paying a sin tax. Pollution is a tax on all of us - why should the public be the ones to take on the cost after the fact - why not make the polluter pick up the tab.

And what about trading modification with the Tobin tax. A minute transaction tax on trades would almost completely stop practices like getting in between trades the way Goldman Sachs has done, buying ahead of someone's order and then selling to them immediately for a tiny markup. Do we really need companies skimming like that making a hundredth of a penny per share margin on a millisecond basis?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

This isn't related to sin taxes but I was wondering what folks think about these draconian measures regulating speech that are being foisted by the government on companies like FreeCreditReport.com

 

[redrumloa]

This isn't related to sin taxes but I was wondering what folks think about these draconian measures regulating speech that are being foisted by the government on companies like FreeCreditReport.com

freecreditreport.com is owned by Experian, whom are crooked bastards that need to be strung up. This isn't a freedom of speech issue, it goes much deeper.