Astronauts condemn NASA’s global warming endorsement

Dammy

Dammy

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http://washingtonexaminer.com/polit...demn-nasa’s-global-warming-endorsement/469366

In an unprecedented slap at NASA’s endorsement of global warming science, nearly 50 former astronauts and scientists--including the ex-boss of the Johnson Space Center--claim the agency is on the wrong side of science and must change course or ruin the reputation of the world’s top space agency.

Challenging statements from NASA that man is causing climate change, the former NASA executives demanded in a letter to Administrator Charles Bolden that he and the agency “refrain from including unproven remarks” supporting global warming in the media.

“We feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate,” they wrote. “At risk is damage to the exemplary reputation of NASA, NASA’s current or former scientists and employees, and even the reputation of science itself.”

The letter was signed by seven Apollo astronauts, a deputy associate administrator, several scientists, and even the deputy director of the space shuttle program.
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And, of course, a letter from some NASA vets, urging NASA not to make political statements, instantly ends up being used as a political statement. Yay! Politics are so much fun. (sigh)
 
They're probably right, NASA would likely get burned playing politics even if everything they claimed turns out to be true. Fact is, scientists make great advisers and politicians like to keep advisers out of politics.

Of course, none of this has anything to do with the validity of global warming theories.
 
“We feel that NASA’s advocacy of an extreme position, prior to a thorough study of the possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers is inappropriate,”
Yes, I guess it would have been. However, the use of the word "extreme" and the insinuation that no studying has been done make this more of a "smear" than a critique.
We can probably discount the ex-executives and astronauts expertise but it would be interesting to know what scientists signed on. I know that when the "creation-science" types sign up scientists to shout down evolution the scientists area of expertise tends not to have much to do with biology.
As for the "possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers" (yes, that's right - the fact that it might be possible that natural factors are the dominant drivers) we can't do anything about those. We can't change the sun, we can't control our orbit, etc, but we can, to a certain extent, control the gasses we put into our atmosphere.
This letter isn't an embarrassment to NASA, it's an embarrassment to the people who signed it.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
We can probably discount the ex-executives and astronauts expertise but it would be interesting to know what scientists signed on.
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From whatsupwiththat.com the list of signatories has these guys explicitly listed as scientists:

Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist – astronaut, 5 years
Thomas (Tom) Wysmuller – JSC, Meteorologist, 5 years

These guys all appear to have PhDs (although I've no idea in which discipline):

Dr. Donald Bogard – JSC, Principal Investigator, Science Directorate, 41 years
Dr. Kenneth Cox – JSC, Chief Flight Dynamics Div., Engr. Directorate, 40 years
Dr. Donald M. Curry – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Leading Edge, Thermal Protection Sys., Engr. Dir., 44 years
Dr. Henry P. Decell, Jr. – JSC, Chief, Theory & Analysis Office, 5 years
Dr. Harold Doiron – JSC, Chairman, Shuttle Pogo Prevention Panel, 16 years
Dr. Joseph Kerwin – JSC, Astronaut, Skylab 2, Director of Space and Life Sciences, 22 years
Dr. Christopher C. Kraft – JSC, Apollo Flight Director and Director of Johnson Space Center, 24 years
Dr. Lubert Leger – JSC, Ass’t. Chief Materials Division, Engr. Directorate, 30 years
Dr. Humbolt C. Mandell – JSC, Mgr. Shuttle Program Control and Advance Programs, 40 years
Dr. George Mueller – Hdq., Assoc. Adm., Office of Space Flight, 6 years
Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt – JSC, Astronaut Apollo 17, 10 years
Dr. James Visentine – JSC Materials Branch, Engineering Directorate, 30 years

I know that when the "creation-science" types sign up scientists to shout down evolution the scientists area of expertise tends not to have much to do with biology.
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Indeed, although I'd like to think a NASA bunch might have a tad more integrity.

As for the "possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers" (yes, that's right - the fact that it might be possible that natural factors are the dominant drivers) we can't do anything about those. We can't change the sun, we can't control our orbit, etc, but we can, to a certain extent, control the gasses we put into our atmosphere.
This letter isn't an embarrassment to NASA, it's an embarrassment to the people who signed it.
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I agree, it's rather hyperbolic which only detracts from its intended impact.
 
I don't have time to look them all up but the first guy on the list, Dr. Phillip K. Chapman – JSC, Scientist, has the following qualifications:

EDUCATION: Graduated from Parramatta High School in Parramatta, N.S.W., Australia; received a bachelor of science degree in Physics and Mathematics from Sydney University in 1956; and from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, a master of science degree in Aeronautics and Astronautics in 1964 and a Doctorate of Science in Instrumentation in 1967.
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Sounds like a sharp cookie but not much in the way climate science.

Perhpaps one of you guys can check some of the others?
 
here's one weird notion:

Dr. Harrison (Jack) Schmitt

.......in a 2009 interview with conservative talk-radio host Alex Jones, Schmitt asserted a link between Soviet Communism and the American environmental movement: "I think the whole trend really began with the fall of the Soviet Union. Because the great champion of the opponents of liberty, namely communism, had to find some other place to go and they basically went into the environmental movement."
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hmmmmmm

how odd. :confused:
 
As for the "possible overwhelming impact of natural climate drivers" (yes, that's right - the fact that it might be possible that natural factors are the dominant drivers) we can't do anything about those. We can't change the sun, we can't control our orbit, etc, but we can, to a certain extent, control the gasses we put into our atmosphere.
This letter isn't an embarrassment to NASA, it's an embarrassment to the people who signed it.
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Maybe I'm reading your post wrong? I wouldn't say the letter is an embarrassment to anyone, per se. Besides maybe the people who are trying to wrongly apply it to global warming validity, that is. The letter is essentially asking NASA to stop with the political pieces. And, I largely agree with that stance. Science shouldn't be political. Bad decisions are made when too much politics get into science.

From reading this, I don't think any one signed on is necessarily challenging the validity of any of NASA's studies. Just stating that NASA shouldn't be producing political papers, it should be producing scientific research. NASA's job is (or should be) to collect the data and release scientific analysis. NASA is likely trying to play politics to obtain government favor in these tough times, but I agree with the vets in that it probably isn't in NASA's best interest to do this, in the long run.
 
Good! Global Warming is the biggest scam in human history.
 
ilwrath said:
The letter is essentially asking NASA to stop with the political pieces. And, I largely agree with that stance. Science shouldn't be political. Bad decisions are made when too much politics get into science.
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I suppose that's fair enough (although calling it an extreme position betrays that in my opinion).

What are the political pieces form NASA?
 
Robert said:
Sounds like a sharp cookie but not much in the way climate science.
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Background is a good question but so is work. Even if someone has a PhD in Physics from 20 years ago perhaps they've been working in the area of Climate sometime in their career. Though with most of the titles here it appears their current positions are not one of Earth Climate Studies.
 
Good! Global Warming is the biggest scam in human history.
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It would be if you could prove it. Too bad you can't.
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Follow the money.
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Interestingly, it appears that it's the skeptics who don't want you to follow the money. They're a lot less transparent about their funding than NASA.

Also interesting is NASA's rebuttal. NASA is not admitting they have been political, at all. And, honestly, perhaps they really haven't. I haven't read all of NASA's papers on the matter. I know James Hansen (head of NASA's GISS) typically makes very political comments and speeches... However, he does attempt to separate his personal speaking and testimony apart from that of representing NASA, itself.

What are the political pieces form NASA?
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Well.... Errm. Ahem. I was assuming that the full letter from the vets had specific politically slanted NASA papers to cite from, but, in further investigation, that does not seem to be the case. In the very least, the disgruntled vets do not seem to have brought the points of actual contention forward, yet. That doesn't exactly help my position here, does it? :P
 
ilwrath said:
That doesn't exactly help my position here, does it? :p
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hehehe... at least you were gracious enough to respond and acknowledge this.

That alone is worth a cyberpint, my good man. :pint:
 
That alone is worth a cyberpint, my good man. :pint:
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Thank ya, sir. Unlike the current trend around here, I always appreciate when we can keep things civilized.:pint:
 
Ya, after reading more on this, it does appear as though it's the vets that are political and NASA not so much. After all, if their scientific research tells them that global warming is man made, it's their duty to let us all know. The vets would need to do more then just express their opinion at this point, they need some cold hard facts of their own. Unfortunately they're kinda quiet on that front.
 
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