Bad Canada! Premier heads to USA for heart surgery!

[redrumloa]

And we want to copy their system?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... UC915Scusw

"Gee, it must be nice to be able to afford to bypass Canada's crappy health-care system and its dangerously long waiting lists for surgery," said one person in a post to the Globe and Mail website.

"Some people are more special than others, I guess."

 

[Glaucus]

You're a bit slow Red, but I figured this would eventually make it's way here.

It's a bit of a thorny issue. I kinda lost respect for Danny Williams after this. It's true that the procedure he got wasn't offered in his province, but his province is a small one. It's normal to fly people to other provinces to get a special procedure done. I doubt it would be any different in a private health care system as it's generally accepted that the best place to get an operation is a place where they perform that kind of operation routinely. Places with small populations like Newfoundland would just never get the throughput to keep such a surgical team 1) interested 2) well equipped and 3) sharp. So that I can understand.

What I can't understand is why he'd go to the US when he could have had it done elsewhere in Canada. He certainly undermined the public's trust in the Canadian health care system and is basically announcing that Canada really does have a two tear system; 1) for those who can go to the US and 2) everyone else.

But in large part I think Williams was duped into thinking that the US system is the better system. There really is no reason to believe that, at least when it comes to valve replacement surgery: Danny Williams could have stayed in Canada for top cardiac care, doctors say

"Virtually all forms of cardiac surgery are looked after in Canada, and I would say extremely well," said Dr. Chris Feindel, a cardiac surgeon at Toronto's University Health Network. "Personally ... I would have my cardiac surgery done in Canada, no matter what resources I had at my disposal."

In fact, he said, patients from the United States and other countries come to the UHN's Peter Munk Cardiac Centre for valve repairs, a procedure developed by Toronto surgeons. Meanwhile, the death rate after bypass surgery in Ontario is among the lowest in North America, reports the province's Cardiac Care Network.

Canada's health care system has issues of course, but it also has a lot to be proud of. Toronto's Sick Kids hospital is world renowned and is considered to be one of the top three centers for pediatrics care in the world. Just today they announce they are developing a new robotic surgical device for use on kids: Ottawa announces funding for Sick Kids robotic surgical system

The money will be used to develop the KidsArm robotic surgical system -- an image-guided medical robot designed for paediatric patients.
Surgeons will be able to operate the tabletop tool by using a pair of hand controllers.
It will allow them to perform less invasive procedures on child patients and reduce the average time of operations by as much as 90 per cent.

So, aside from needlessly tarnishing the Canadian health care system, I don't think Danny Williams gained much from his little trip to Miami.

 

[cecilia]

I think he wanted an excuse to vacation in miami

 

[faethor]

And we want to copy their system?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... UC915Scusw

There are two different things going on here. The first is a question of world leading hosptials and doctors for a condition. The US has some of those. The second is access to the system. Just because a hospital exists does not mean that hospital is accessible to the masses, ie the system. A single hospital, let alone doctor, could not possibly handle the influx of the entire US population. The entire US population couldn't use it anyhow because they either don't have insurance, the insurance doesn't cover it, and they don't have the spare change to pay it in cash.

This the typical rich people have the ability to select whatever option they want to use in the entire world. You don't need insurance when you could personally pay for the yearly salaries of a medical team but only need to use them once. No one wants to stop this. What people do want to see is enhanced care so those without insurance can get treatment and those with insurance are protected against bankrupcies when the worst happens.

If you want to compare 1 rich politican crossing the boarder what do you compare it to? How about Washington, Minnesota, New York with shuttles from cities running into Canada on a weekly basis that are filled with people to use the Canadian system for low cost medicine and for medical care.

Let me change my mind... Perhaps it does speak about the system. The US has a good hospital that takes care of the rich, which are few. Cananda has fairer economic cost and can care of the masses, even when the US masses use their system.

 

[cecilia]

And we want to copy their system?

http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadi ... UC915Scusw

There are two different things going on here. The first is a question of world leading hosptials and doctors for a condition. The US has some of those. The second is access to the system. Just because a hospital exists does not mean that hospital is accessible to the masses, ie the system. A single hospital, let alone doctor, could not possibly handle the influx of the entire US population. The entire US population couldn't use it anyhow because they either don't have insurance, the insurance doesn't cover it, and they don't have the spare change to pay it in cash.

This the typical rich people have the ability to select whatever option they want to use in the entire world. You don't need insurance when you could personally pay for the yearly salaries of a medical team but only need to use them once. No one wants to stop this. What people do want to see is enhanced care so those without insurance can get treatment and those with insurance are protected against bankrupcies when the worst happens.

If you want to compare 1 rich politican crossing the boarder what do you compare it to? How about Washington, Minnesota, New York with shuttles from cities running into Canada on a weekly basis that are filled with people to use the Canadian system for low cost medicine and for medical care.

Let me change my mind... Perhaps it does speak about the system. The US has a good hospital that takes care of the rich, which are few. Cananda has fairer economic cost and can care of the masses, even when the US masses use their system.

wow, that's the best explanation of the way things are I've yet seen.

Thank YOU!

 

[faethor]

wow, that's the best explanation of the way things are I've yet seen.

Thank YOU

Thanks for the compliment.

 

[Glaucus]

Couldn't have asked for better timing!

Palin says family went to Canada for health care

Sarah Palin's weekend admission that her family once travelled to Canada to receive treatment under the public health-care system she has so often demonized prompted skepticism and ridicule Monday among her critics in the United States.

“My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse,” the former Alaska governor said Saturday night during a speech in Calgary.

“Believe it or not – this was in the ‘60s – we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing, and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn't that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada.”

Ok you pesky Republicans, stop mooching of our public health care system! :roflmao:

 

[redrumloa]

Couldn't have asked for better timing!

Palin says family went to Canada for health care

Sarah Palin's weekend admission that her family once travelled to Canada to receive treatment under the public health-care system she has so often demonized prompted skepticism and ridicule Monday among her critics in the United States.

“My first five years of life we spent in Skagway, Alaska, right there by Whitehorse,” the former Alaska governor said Saturday night during a speech in Calgary.

“Believe it or not – this was in the ‘60s – we used to hustle on over the border for health care that we would receive in Whitehorse. I remember my brother, he burned his ankle in some little kid accident thing, and my parents had to put him on a train and rush him over to Whitehorse and I think, isn't that kind of ironic now. Zooming over the border, getting health care from Canada.”

Ok you pesky Republicans, stop mooching of our public health care system! :roflmao:

Gee, this one is too easy.

A 2000 census report shows the Skagway-Hoonah-Angoon Census Area in Alaska to be a whopping 3,436.

http://factfinder.census.gov/servlet/SA ... redirect=Y

I can only imagine what the population would have been in the 1960's, maybe hundreds? Good luck finding a hospital. The distance from Skagway to Whitehouse is ~109 miles.

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=60.090 ... C%20canada

The distance to Anchorage OTOH is 812 miles.

http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=61.397 ... C%20alaska

Come now Mike, should her family just let her brother die instead of rushing him to the nearest hospital? If it was not bad enough for death, make him suffer by traveling almost 8 times as far? I doubt Sarah's parents had any idea in the 60's she would become a VP candidate. This is somewhat silly.

 

[JoBBo]

I think a more interesting quote would be the following: "A report last spring by Deloitte Center for Health Solutions said 750,000 Americans travelled abroad for medical care in 2007"

If this estimate is close to be true, it is difficult to argue that all these people must be from places with no US hospitals nearby.

 

[redrumloa]

I think a more interesting quote would be the following: "A report last spring by Deloitte Center for Health Solutions said 750,000 Americans travelled abroad for medical care in 2007"

If this estimate is close to be true, it is difficult to argue that all these people must be from places with no US hospitals nearby.

It is more complicated than that. How many people travel to the USA for care every year? A good chunk of people travel to Mexico for care, since it is very cheap compared to the USA. Some left coast companies near the border even offer Mexican health plan options. Would you want a major procedure in Mexico?

 

[JoBBo]

It is more complicated than that. How many people travel to the USA for care every year?

According to the same source (Deloitte Center for Health Solutions), roughly half the amount of people compared to how many US citizens travel abroad for medical care. Link: http://www.medicaltourismmag.com/detail ... 8&issue=11

A good chunk of people travel to Mexico for care, since it is very cheap compared to the USA. Some left coast companies near the border even offer Mexican health plan options. Would you want a major procedure in Mexico?

That would depend on whether I could choose the hospital. You can find some wonderful clinics with world-class doctors in countries that are far poorer and less stable than Mexico. Unfortunately, the mere existance of these clinics does not really say anything about the level of medical care that is available to the average person in any country, including the United States.

For the record, I am not arguing that outbound medical tourism is bad either. My argument is that neither outbound nor inbound medical tourism does say much about how effective a particular healthcare system is at providing easy and affordable access to quality medical care to a large percentage of a country's population, which should be its primary function.