Biden confirms administration are a bunch of complete morons

[redrumloa]

http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2008/12 ... conom.html

Vice President-Elect Joe Biden said the U.S. economy is in danger of "absolutely tanking" and will need a second stimulus package in the $600-billion to $700-billion range.

"The economy is in much worse shape than we thought it was in," Biden told me during an exclusive interview -- his first since becoming vice president-elect-- to air this Sunday on "This Week with George Stephanopoulos."

"There is no short run other than keeping the economy from absolutely tanking. That's the only short run," Biden told me.

No idiot, you morons are helping seal the fate for the economy absolutely tanking. You didn't get it right in the first place, per your own words, and you are not getting it right now.

So let me figure this out. A Florida hating South Floridian and an America hating, tinfoil hat wearing Canadian (and a couple others) on some off the beaten track discussion forum had the economic woes pegged but the super duper smart Obama administration had no clue? :roll:

Whyzzat early 2006 - "Downfall of Rome"
Super duper smart Obama administration mid 2009 - "Economy absolutely tanking"

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

[...] an America hating, tinfoil hat wearing Canadian [...]

ooooh, my ears are burning...

I don't actually hate America... just the owners of that particular plantation. But, I guess, so long as the slaves can't figure out that they may be better off without the master whipping them, and so long as the salves think that calling the master on his crimes is an offense against the slaves - well, then "America" will have to continue to think that I hate her.

 

[redrumloa]

[...] an America hating, tinfoil hat wearing Canadian [...]

ooooh, my ears are burning...

I don't actually hate America... just the owners of that particular plantation. But, I guess, so long as the slaves can't figure out that they may be better off without the master whipping them, and so long as the salves think that calling the master on his crimes is an offense against the slaves - well, then "America" will have to continue to think that I hate her.

I know, the banks are evil and all that and there is a secret society pulling all the strings. Actually there is a little truth to the conspiracy theories, especially about the big banks. The conspiracy theories just get way over the top IMO. Also problem is it is not just an american cause and/or problem.

 

[faethor]

@Redumloa

It appears the Prez has a different story --- "President Barack Obama on Saturday dismissed the idea the nation might need a second stimulus to jolt the economy out of recession and urged Americans to be patient with his economic recovery plan." -- MSNBC

 

[metalman]

The first 2 trillion stimulus was such a help to the economy.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

The first 2 trillion stimulus was such a help to the economy.

1. The 2 trillion hasn't been spent yet.

2. Real unemployment is closer to 20%

3. The recovery happened in the past. That was when everyone (government and guy next door) were living on borrowed money. Now it's time to pay it back.

 

[faethor]

The first 2 trillion stimulus was such a help to the economy.

Just to let you know based on your past statements I'm reading this line from you with sarcasm. If it was sincere. Let us know.

So here's my question with the projections.
1) The monies have not been fully spent. How does the actual rate of spending compare to that in the assumed rate of spending in the chart.

2) What factors went into the calculations on the chart? We see the actual rate about 1.5% larger then the projected rate. How does the reality impact the w/o projection? It appears something was missed. I think it unfair to conclude the miss was only in 1 of the two graphs. ... To much Project Manager in me... I want to tell them, knowing what you now know go rework the 2 models.

 

[metalman]

President Obama campaigned for the stimulus saying the economy was cratering so badly we would enter another depression unless the super porkulus bill was passed to save it.

The chart is Super Obama's own chart used he used show everyone how the great stimulus porkulus bill would save jobs. The whole point of Obama's spending a trillion dollars (with interest included) was to keep unemployment below 8%. Democrats rushed through Congress the $787 billion porkulus bill in February - the largest spending bill in history, before anyone knew what was in the bill. Super Obama's own chart shows the projected timing of the "stimulus spending".

The Obama administration used the economic downturn as an ruse to expand the size of government. Calling it a stimulus bill, they put in place a spending agenda that will actually be spent over the next two years. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the largest share of the spending will occur in 2010, with the amount spent in 2011 being larger than in 2009.

Looks like Super Obama's Stimulus Porkulas has caused 1% more unemployment than if nothing was done at all, by his own projections.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

The Obama administration used the economic downturn as an ruse to expand the size of government. Calling it a stimulus bill, they put in place a spending agenda that will actually be spent over the next two years. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that the largest share of the spending will occur in 2010, with the amount spent in 2011 being larger than in 2009.

We can agree that the administrations projections were a load of manure, but you're mischaracterizing the stimulus. When you create a whole new government department, especially a mega-department like the Department of Homeland Security, THAT's expanding the size of government. On the other hand, when you fork over billions to private financial institutions and construction companies etc, that's an expansion of private income but it doesn't expand government so much as it expands government debt (which is not the same thing).

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

President Obama campaigned for the stimulus saying the economy was cratering so badly we would enter another depression unless the super porkulus bill was passed to save it.

The cratering economy is not just a ruse, it's real and really big. Look at the next coming bailout.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Probably best to end the Fed

 

[Glaucus]

Well, what Biden said may have been pretty moronic, but overall the stimulus itself isn't necessarily a dumb idea.

Stimulus is too low, too slow

This article points out some compromises made with the stimulus package (down sizing it mostly to please some right wingers) and the fact that it's being spent far too slowly. France in comparison has spent it's money at a much higher rate. Part of the explanation for that may be that the more socialist countries have the infrastructure to manage these types of projects internally where as the US does not, relying more on 3rd parties and a bunch of red tape. I imagine in this case, the socialist countries are just naturally more efficient and will likely complete the stimulus with less corruption. That's not to say the US shouldn't ever consider a stimulus, it's just they need to do what America does best: adapt, and adapt quickly. The article points out how it has been used in America in the past and what Obama may need to do to get it to work this time.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

[...]it's just they need to do what America does best:

Whine and moan, blame it on "liberals" or foreigners then go back to watching "Entertainment Tonight".

 

[redrumloa]

Well, what Biden said may have been pretty moronic, but overall the stimulus itself isn't necessarily a dumb idea.

Stimulus is too low, too slow

This article points out some compromises made with the stimulus package (down sizing it mostly to please some right wingers) and the fact that it's being spent far too slowly. France in comparison has spent it's money at a much higher rate. Part of the explanation for that may be that the more socialist countries have the infrastructure to manage these types of projects internally where as the US does not, relying more on 3rd parties and a bunch of red tape. I imagine in this case, the socialist countries are just naturally more efficient and will likely complete the stimulus with less corruption. That's not to say the US shouldn't ever consider a stimulus, it's just they need to do what America does best: adapt, and adapt quickly. The article points out how it has been used in America in the past and what Obama may need to do to get it to work this time.

Milton Friedman predicted this whole nonsense.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/015661 ... d_i=507846

Step by step this is all predicted, the next step is hyper inflation. This is the ultimate goal, even Warren Buffet has said the only way out for the USA is inflation. This is NOT good for your average Joe 6-pack, but elitist like Obama could give 2 shits about Joe 6-pack.

 

[redrumloa]

Whine and moan, blame it on "liberals" or foreigners then go back to watching "Entertainment Tonight".

Blame it on everyone named not named Ron Paul. The rest of your logic is flawed, republicans are NOT your typical entertainment tonight (and American Idle) crowd. That is for the libs. Republicans will go back to bible study or cleaning their shotgun ;-)

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Step by step this is all predicted, the next step is hyper inflation. This is the ultimate goal, even Warren Buffet has said the only way out for the USA is inflation. This is NOT good for your average Joe 6-pack, but elitist like Obama could give 2 shits about Joe 6-pack.

Hyperinflation is scary and difficult but is not really so bad for your average Joe as it is for your above average Joe. Your average Joe has a mortgage and credit card debt and loans and car payments etc. Those are all the sort of things that go away under hyperinflation. When $100,000 buys a roll of toilet paper, then a 12 pack can settle the mortgage on a mansion.

The thing that the average Joe tends not to have much of these days is savings and that is what gets wiped out in hyperinflation IF it is saved in the inflating currency. If it is saved as an asset then the asset will still be that asset when inflation slows and will retain its value. Gold and silver should keep much of their value and are quite easily convertible. A house should maintain value (and provide the service of keeping the weather out at the same time).

 

[redrumloa]

Problem is $1,000 for a roll of toilet paper, but the poor slobs will still be making minimum wage at Walmart.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Problem is $1,000 for a roll of toilet paper, but the poor slobs will still be making minimum wage at Walmart.

They will be working for toilet paper. No employer will be able to keep their workers if they don't move the wage up.

If you pay a guy enough to buy a fifty ninth of a peanut every day he won't be spending his days with you - he will be out on the street hustling and steeling the things he needs but cannot afford to work for. So you'll either have to up his pay or pay him in stuff he can trade.

 

[redrumloa]

If you pay a guy enough to buy a fifty ninth of a peanut every day he won't be spending his days with you - he will be out on the street hustling and steeling the things he needs but cannot afford to work for. So you'll either have to up his pay or pay him in stuff he can trade.

We will have a lot of people on the street hustling and stealing. Look at third world countries and what their typical labor rates are. These people cannot afford to buy toilet paper or running water. Do we really want to go down that road?

 

[redrumloa]

@Redumloa

It appears the Prez has a different story --- "President Barack Obama on Saturday dismissed the idea the nation might need a second stimulus to jolt the economy out of recession and urged Americans to be patient with his economic recovery plan." -- MSNBC

I take this as Biden being Biden and speaking without permission from Obama. Obama is still trying to talk up the economy, despite every inch of reality pointing to nightmare.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Nine-Reas ... l?x=0&.v=1
Nine Reasons the Economy is Not Getting Better

We are now looking at unemployment numbers that undermine any confidence that we might be nearing the bottom of the recession. The appropriate metaphor is not the green shoots of new growth. A better image is to look at the true total of jobless people as a prudent navigator looks at an iceberg.

What we see on the surface is disconcerting enough. The estimate from the Bureau of Labor Statistics of job losses for June is 467,000. That increases by 7.2 million the number of unemployed since the start of the recession. The cumulative job losses over the past six months have been greater than for any other half-year period since World War II, including demobilization. What's more, the job losses are now equal to the net job gains over the previous nine years, making this the only recession since the Great Depression to wipe out all employment growth from the previous business cycle.

That's bad enough. But here are nine reasons we are in even more trouble than the 9.5 percent unemployment rate indicates.

Talking up the economy does not work, if anything it only allows more time for politicians and their banker cronies to take short positions, but puts and otherwise position themselves to profit from the great crash. Obama is not the first to try to talk up the economy, look at what Bush administration and cro nies did. Late in the game Bush went on TV and stated "The economy is strong and we have a plan to keep it strong". Bank CEOs went on TV and stated they had no liquidity problems weeks or days before they failed, all while insiders sold into the rally and firms like Goldman Sachs shorted. Shills like Jim Cramer stated in late 2006 that "Housing has bottomed". It is all a big game, you have to view all of these idiots and crooks for what they really are. Obama being at the top of the idiot or crook food chain, take your pick which one he is.