British MP shot dead

I was reading about this..and what I found especially disturbing was that a gun AND a knife were involved.....premeditated ?
 
I can't help but feel that had the assailant been of Islamic persuasion, the headlines would have been significantly different...
 
adz said:
I can't help but feel that had the assailant been of Islamic persuasion, the headlines would have been significantly different...
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Sadly, I think you are absolutely correct.
 
Robert said:
A man was arrested nearby.

One eyewitness told the BBC they heard her attacker shout "put Britain first" at least twice beforehand.
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Heard about that before they announced that she had died. Horrible as it is, it's very convenient for the anti-Brexit side to have a martyr. I'm sure it will be played up for all it's worth - there's a lot of money riding on the outcome.
 
Robert said:
A sign in a 'landrette' window? Versus an an eye witness?
Aye, seems legit. =)
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Guess Aamir was just trying to undo his previous passing along of hearsay.
According to the Mail:
Aamir Tahir, of The Dry Clean Centre, said the gunman was heard shouting 'Britain first'.

He said: 'The lady I work with heard two loud bangs. I wish I was there because I would have tried to stop him.

'Apparently the guy who did it shouted 'Britain first' and if I had been there I would have tackled him.'
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So he was reporting what he heard someone else say they had heard. Guess he's overcompensating. It seems to have been heard by multiple witnesses - and the "Britain First" quote is going to be the main story until the referendum I guess. Mr Stabby is going to feel like a right plonker if the polls turn round now because of this.
Wonder if someone will kill an American politician soon and yell "Make America Great Again" while doing it.
 
It's now looking like he almost certainly *did* shout something along those lines.

And whatever partisan mischief making may or may not be happening, it's now pretty certain that Thomas Mair *was* politically motivated:

The defendant, who was wearing a grey tracksuit, refused to give his correct name and did not reply when asked to confirm his address and date of birth in court earlier.

Thomas Mair gave his name as "Death to traitors, freedom for Britain", when he appeared at Westminster Magistrates' Court.
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Robert said:
And whatever partisan mischief making may or may not be happening, it's now pretty certain that Thomas Mair *was* politically motivated:
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Very very troubling. Britain needs to get out of Europe as much as Scotland should have left the UK - and it would be a far greater tragedy to stay in that the death of any one person - but a death focuses fear so much more effectively that the more nebulous threat of totalitarianism. Only with a small government will people feel the possibility and responsibility to take control of their destiny and share the wealth more equitably.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Very very troubling. Britain needs to get out of Europe as much as Scotland should have left the UK - and it would be a far greater tragedy to stay in that the death of any one person - but a death focuses fear so much more effectively that the more nebulous threat of totalitarianism. Only with a small government will people feel the possibility and responsibility to take control of their destiny and share the wealth more equitably.
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I'm probably going to vote to remain.
Much as I dislike and distrust the EU, I dislike and distrust the UK government to a greater degree.

Had Scotland voted to leave the UK, I'd also have wanted to leave the EU but whilst we remain part of the UK, I'd prefer we also remain in the EU.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Very very troubling. Britain needs to get out of Europe as much as Scotland should have left the UK - and it would be a far greater tragedy to stay in that the death of any one person - but a death focuses fear so much more effectively that the more nebulous threat of totalitarianism. Only with a small government will people feel the possibility and responsibility to take control of their destiny and share the wealth more equitably.
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And who do you think stands up against ever growing multinationals?
I know the EU is rotten beyond belief but there are actually very good movements in there as well. The debate in the UK is poisoned and abuses the downsides and corruption of the EU.
I can't believe either that people accept that terms like 'hitler won', I mean, British people do want to be taken seriously, is it not?

But on the other hand, maybe it's good the UK (politics) leaves the EU. They've NEVER been cooperative and NEVER been constructive, only poisoning everything with their rethoric skills and poisonous 'debate' culture.
Everytime I see the British governement in action, it makes me think of a monkey cage. A lot of noise instead of voice of reason, even there where it's needed most. I mean, yelling and ruffling up, at where the country is being led? Come on!

Sorry Robert, I love your country but I do loathe your political culture.
 
Robert said:
I'm probably going to vote to remain.
Much as I dislike and distrust the EU, I dislike and distrust the UK government to a greater degree.
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It will be much easier to get out of the UK if the UK is out of Europe. You have to break everything up into smaller parts else it's too big to fight. If you want to see a free Scotland then you have to vote to leave the EU, else the EU will work with the UK govt to keep Scotland in and you will never be able to petition the EU for a referendum with them so aloof.

Think about how hard it was for the South when they attempted to secede. Think that if they had instead all voted to stay in it would have been easier at a later stage for individual states to leave on their own?

Vote to leave. Don't be a coward. You can handle the UK government - they are a train ride away and your MPs actually have some influence there. You cannot have the same influence in the European parliament - and they will continue to take powers to themselves. The time to do something about it is now. It will be much harder to do it later. This is probably the last chance - so take it.
 
But... But... But... It's the UK. You can't have gun crime. You've got strict anti-gun laws.. This can't be right at all.. Must be a mistake..
 
Wayne said:
But... But... But... It's the UK. You can't have gun crime.
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Compared to the US, it does not. A 84% lower gun homicide rate per 100.000 residents should give any reasonable person pause.

The difference is far more pronounced when you look at the number of people killed by law enforcement in the US and in the UK.

You've got strict anti-gun laws..
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Do you also refer to speed limits as "anti-car laws"?

This can't be right at all.. Must be a mistake..
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I know that you are smarter than this.
 
JoBBo said:
I know that you are smarter than this.
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Most of my response was intended to be tongue-in-cheek, but it was early and I forgot my smileys...

I was honestly surprised to hear about a gun crime happening in the U.K. at all.

Wayne
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
It will be much easier to get out of the UK if the UK is out of Europe. You have to break everything up into smaller parts else it's too big to fight. If you want to see a free Scotland then you have to vote to leave the EU, else the EU will work with the UK govt to keep Scotland in and you will never be able to petition the EU for a referendum with them so aloof.
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You realize that the Scottish Independence movement specifically campaigned for Scotland to become a new member state of the EU that would adopt the Euro as its currency?

Veto rules aside, why would the other EU member states seriously care if they had to negotiate with separate Scotland and Britain member states as opposed to a unified and ultimately more powerful United Kingdom?

Don't be a coward. You can handle the UK government - they are a train ride away and your MPs actually have some influence there.
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Eurostar offers train rides from London to Brussels for 29 quid :-)

You cannot have the same influence in the European parliament - and they will continue to take powers to themselves. The time to do something about it is now. It will be much harder to do it later. This is probably the last chance - so take it.
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Here is a thought: An independent Scotland outside of the EU is not going to have the resources or structures to adequately deal with giant multinational corporations. Even the United States and the European Union institutions have a difficult time as it is and not everything can be explained with corruption.

I fail to see how rampant fragmentation and isolationism is magically going to make the world a better place.
 
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