Don't like the iPad? You have choices...

Wayne

Wayne

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http://www.cnbc.com/id/35989025?slide=1

If I didn't already have an iPad but was on the fence, I particularly like the first one, the "JooJoo" which is linux-based, but then again, none of them address what you can actually do with them nearly as well as Apple.
 
Wayne said:
http://www.cnbc.com/id/35989025?slide=1

If I didn't already have an iPad but was on the fence, I particularly like the first one, the "JooJoo" which is Linux-based, but then again, none of them address what you can actually do with them nearly as well as Apple.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that Wayne! I already see two competitors that I want to know more about. It would be nice to have either before I go back to Bonaire in November. :-)

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
Thanks Wayne.

I'm with most computer pundits that see touchscreens taking over in the next 5 years. Running a solely Microsoft shop and using HP equipment the HP Slate looks compelling. My approach is more business orientated than home user orientated in nature.

(Yeah Microsoft bleck. I've run over a dozen OSes and various configurations of OSes in business production environments, including Apple. But, one goes where it pays the bills.)
 
faethor said:
I'm with most computer pundits that see touchscreens taking over in the next 5 years. Running a solely Microsoft shop and using HP equipment the HP Slate looks compelling. My approach is more business orientated than home user orientated in nature.

(Yeah Microsoft bleck. I've run over a dozen OSes and various configurations of OSes in business production environments, including Apple. But, one goes where it pays the bills.)
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You see that as "more business oriented than home oriented in nature". I see "same old mindset, different day, only the screen has changed"... I see the "PC" as more "BC" ("business computer") than "personal computer"..

I know that most of the world is just fine with Windows. I don't get it, but I understand the status quo sheep mindset (not pointing that at you btw). Easier to follow the crowd than to have a unique thought.

I just prefer to think outside it, even if that means just using Apple products (as opposed to something truly innovative). Most people don't feel the need to step outside their comfort zone, or to think outside the box, and I can't help but think that's a little sad.

As I've said repeatedly, time will tell what happens to the iPad, but based on Apple's track record, I can't help but think that it's going to be another "ipod-style revolution". While it's not strictly "something new", it will -- like the original iPod -- help to solidify the need for a tablet device in the minds of the public.

While it's interesting to note that 10 years later, even though there are literally hundreds of cheap mp3 players on the market, the iPod (and all its' variants) outsells the nearest competitor (the Zune?) nearly 2-to-1.

Matter of fact, in the last 10 years, the ONLY product I've seen Apple fail at is their "Apple TV", which was meant as a "Tivo competitor" but only served to push everyone to develop Netflix interfaces for their DVD players and so-forth.

Speaking of Netflix, installed the app last night and went for their 2-week trial. If you have a good wifi connection, it's fairly cool to be able to pick a movie and just start watching it then and there without having to rip it, or worry about buying it, etc.

Wayne
 
Wayne said:
Matter of fact, in the last 10 years, the ONLY product I've seen Apple fail at is their "Apple TV", which was meant as a "Tivo competitor" but only served to push everyone to develop Netflix interfaces for their DVD players and so-forth.

Wayne
Click to expand...

You forgot the Newton and the Lisa (although both are well over 10 years ago). Among other Apple Flops... ;-)

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
ltstanfo said:
You forgot the Newton and the Lisa (although both are well over 10 years ago).
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Didn't forget at all, but as you correctly pointed out, they pre-date what I consider to be the current "era" of Apple.
 
Wayne said:
BTW...

HP Slate -- FAIL by way of Windows 7.

http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/04/ ... s-netbook/
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Windows 7 could be a double edged sword. Sure it might not work as well using touch screen (although really we should wait to see how HP "skins" it, or if they instead provide an entirely new "shell" along the lines of media center), however it's got at least one real plus: Comes with a software library bigger then iPad's out of the box due to the fact that it runs any Windows apps.

Let's also not forget Windows 7 Phone is coming out, and the Slate may be tapping into that for some touch screen goodies.

Having said that, I'm still not compelled to buy it as I just don't have a use for it. Basically if it doesn't have a keyboard I don't want it. I don't even consider smart phones without a flipout keyboard to be serious contenders, but that's obviously just me. However, the HP Slate at least has a USB connector and Camera. For me the main downside is the lack of 802.11n (even single band would have been nice, but Apple does support dual band which is nice and probably necessary as it is it's single mode of communication).

Overall I think the Slate is a good contender and in many ways surpasses the iPad (especially in name) but I can guarantee you of this: It won't get even half the press that the iPad got.
 
I just prefer to think outside it, even if that means just using Apple products (as opposed to something truly innovative). Most people don't feel the need to step outside their comfort zone, or to think outside the box, and I can't help but think that's a little sad.
Click to expand...

See, I feel exactly the opposite. There's very little innovative about Apple products at all, other than the severe lock-downs they put on everything. Apple, as a brand, appears to market to the people who do not want to step out of a comfort zone. The Apple mindset is to reduce technology to appliance status. That's great for a phone or an MP3 player. I really don't care if I can't load a particular 3rd party application on my phone. I want to place a call. Can I do that? Ok, anything else is kind of a bonus.

But when it comes to computers, that just seems completely absurd. The computer is the single most powerful and flexible tool mankind has ever developed. Locking it down so I can't get in and do the things I want to just seems so foolish. That was what I hated about the Mac OS versions 1-9 (Classic). You got a desktop that mostly worked, and if it didn't do something you wanted... Well, tough, there's not really a way to change that, short of jumping through some completely insane hoops. The iPad looks the same. You can load any app you want, so long as it's from the Apple App Store. You've got the ability to plug in an Apple approved device, though an Apple approved dock. And if you don't like that, well, tough. You COULD write an app for it, but Apple probably won't approve it. And if you want to run something Apple doesn't approve of? Your only option is to jailbreak. Sounds grand.

This is one piece of the puzzle Linux really gets. When I buy a piece of hardware, it's now MY goddamn hardware, and I should be able to do anything I want with it. Of course Linux has it's own many drawbacks, many of which can trace roots to carrying this philosophy too far. (I don't really want each of the applications I run to have a completely different style and feel from every other one.)

Windows is kind of the mediocre compromise, here. It doesn't limit my usage of my own hardware that much, and yet it manages to provide a fairly consistent environment. Want to run some unsigned code in kernel? It might prompt you that it might be a bad idea, but it still lets you, without having to break the entire system. Sure, Windows has plenty of flaws. And, yes, its lock-in by controlling office file formats is quite despicable, as well. But, really, I don't see the overall Windows product as being all that bad. I'd rather work around bugs than artificial and arbitrary limits. You can live in the hope that one day the bug that you're working around will be patched. :lol:
 
ilwrath said:
See, I feel exactly the opposite. There's very little innovative about Apple products at all, other than the severe lock-downs they put on everything. Apple, as a brand, appears to market to the people who do not want to step out of a comfort zone. The Apple mindset is to reduce technology to appliance status. That's great for a phone or an MP3 player. I really don't care if I can't load a particular 3rd party application on my phone. I want to place a call. Can I do that? Ok, anything else is kind of a bonus.
Click to expand...
Even appliances shouldn't be overly locked down. Too many cell phone providers intentionally lock down their phones. And what turned me off from the iPod is it's highly controlled interface for putting music on or taking music off. For me, a portable music player should look like a removable flashdrive when I plug it into a USB port. I know the Zune has the same limitation but there are players out there that allow for this. It's little things like this that drive me nuts. The problem is that companies see their hardware not as a final product but as a means to sell software (music, games, movies, etc). They are using the game console approach which means they do their best to lock you into their branded form of entertainment. Of course a song on the Zune network is no different from the same song on iTunes, but they'll do everything they can to make sure you're locked into buying it only from their store. So you're not just buying a music player, you're also locking yourself in to a particular way of purchasing music as well. I really hate all that and consider this a bad trend. I personally hate the entire digital content trend entirely and hope that people wake up to it's evils before it's too late.
 
Setting money and nickle and diming issues aside, I totally understand why Apple (or any manufacturer) locks things down. *ANY* veteran of the Commodore Amiga era should.

If you accept the most altruistic of circumstances, one of the facets of the reputation for Apple products is that they "cost more, but tend to be a solid, quality product".

If Apple were to open up the world and just let every Tom, Dick, and Harry build "magical numbnutz widgets" without any control or reigns (as the PC platform does) then you end up with the same crap, that the PC and Windows has now. Random crashes, support nightmares, and reputation for a generally unreliable platform.

How many times have you bought a piece of PC hardware and had problems with a specific manufacturer's driver and subsequent lack of support? Me? Hardly ever but then again, I always sprang for what I thought was better quality hardware (eliminating the "Apple Tax" btw).

Normal "Joe Schmoes" and shops however randomly have issues with it, and Microsoft gets blamed for a lot of crap that isn't their fault. Now, their OS is crap. Not defending it, but factually speaking, about 70% of all Windows problems are caused by their acceptance of "non-standardized" hard and software.

Choke that down and control it, get rid of most of the problems, end up with a great reputation like Apple is enjoying now.

So.. To end my babbling, yes, Apple could be a little less restrictive, but to what end?

Wayne
 
What if what I want to do is illegal? Right now I can download software to circumvent copy protection, which under US law is illegal. I can still get the software because other countries with more liberal laws can host such content (it's perfectly legal to posses and distribute such software in Canada). But if I could only install apps from a US based app store then I'd be screwed. This effectively extends US laws across borders.
 
Setting money and nickle and diming issues aside, I totally understand why Apple (or any manufacturer) locks things down. *ANY* veteran of the Commodore Amiga era should.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand it. Of course, I didn't agree with that philosophy back then, and I still don't.

If Apple were to open up the world and just let every Tom, Dick, and Harry build "magical numbnutz widgets" without any control or reigns (as the PC platform does) then you end up with the same crap, that the PC and Windows has now. Random crashes, support nightmares, and reputation for a generally unreliable platform.
Click to expand...

Strange... My Windows boxes haven't had random crashes, support nightmares or anything else that unreliable about them. Most of the people that do have actually gotten viruses or spyware, or are trying to use some ancient hardware with 16-bit drivers that were "optimized for Windows 95!"

How many times have you bought a piece of PC hardware and had problems with a specific manufacturer's driver and subsequent lack of support? Me? Hardly ever but then again, I always sprang for what I thought was better quality hardware (eliminating the "Apple Tax" btw).
Click to expand...

Not too often, either. And, for the most part, if it's a reasonably modern card and you DO have a problem with the vendor's drivers, just searching google for the chipset of the card will often find you a reference driver that works much better. I'd NEVER use anything other than a reference driver for a video card... The first thing you do when unpacking a video card is throw out the CD that came with it. :lol: But I've also used reference drivers for the odd sound card or NIC or fingerprint reader out there that Windows didn't have a built-in driver for.

So.. To end my babbling, yes, Apple could be a little less restrictive, but to what end?
Click to expand...

I'd much rather get my Apps from Sourceforge than the Apple App store. And I'd much rather pull my hardware off the commodity shelf rather than from an Apple Approved Reseller. Of course, Apple doesn't give those options. I can overlook it for a phone or MP3 player, but, in my mind, for the iPad to be considered more than a toy, it needs to be more open.
 
Wayne said:
HP Slate -- FAIL by way of Windows 7.
Click to expand...
Win 7 is already ready for touchscreens. If one hasn't seen this in action there's a decent video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBtEhQqS1dw

One negative is they continued to use the small buttons. In a touchscreen I prefer the medium sized buttons as they are easier to hit the target with your fingertips.
 
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