Every army has some.

[Fade]

But....Who hired this idiot?

He wants to award medals for "Courageous Restraint" to soldiers in Afghanistan who avoid using deadly force at a risk to their own, and fellow soldiers lives.:slingshot:

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

He wants to award medals for "Courageous Restraint" to soldiers in Afghanistan who avoid using deadly force at a risk to their own, and fellow soldiers lives.:slingshot:

If medals is the only way to get soldiers to display valour then medals it will have to be. Are you just worried that American soldiers won't be getting any of those?

Fundamental reason why the US hasn't been able to subdue the people in many of the places they've been putting themselves into is that they repeatedly demonstrate themselves to be cowards - very very deadly cowards but cowards nonetheless and most of the folks being occupied can't respect them - they have no honour. If the soldiers are there to win hearts and minds then they must demonstrate that they are willing to take a bullet to protect innocent civilian life. If they just freak out all the time and gun down people's families they can never be seen as a force for good and they will never hold the ground because the people can't see any good reason to keep them around.

 

[Robert]

I didn't see anything about your point in the link.

Nonetheless only a real idiot would consider killing from a distance more courageous than restraint.

 

[cecilia]

wow
"courageous restraint"!!???

how civilized.

maybe the military will actually try to come up with techniques where people don't automatically get killed.

what a concept!

 

[Fade]

It is always great theater to listen to armchair quarterbacks that haven't a clue, or experience, try to tell the world the proper way to fight a war.

If they were actually to participate as a commander on the battlefield, they would probably be the first ones to be fragged. (An invention usually attributed to the French during the Battle of Blenheim.)

And who in their right mind thinks that a war is supposed to be civilized. What a concept! Patton and Montgomery would laugh in your face.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

It is always great theater to listen to armchair quarterbacks that haven't a clue, or experience, try to tell the world the proper way to fight a war.

How you fight depends on what your objectives are. Winning hearts and minds is a repeatedly stated objective - the purpose being to hold the entire country and establish a reliable and dependable (and usable) client government. To be of any use the client government needs the trust of the locals and so it needs to show that it is allied with the most honourable side.

If the objective is merely ongoing denial of certain corridors for use by the occupying power without regard for a wider longer term objective then the NATO forces seem to be doing just fine.

And who in their right mind thinks that a war is supposed to be civilized. What a concept! Patton and Montgomery would laugh in your face.

That's right. Civilized countries don't go to war.


By the way, when did you start caring about the wellbeing of government employees?

 

[Robert]

It is always great theater to listen to armchair quarterbacks that haven't a clue, or experience, try to tell the world the proper way to fight a war.

As opposed to Field Marshall Fade, who knows all there is to know about fighting a war?

 

[cecilia]

what I learned from a man who WAS in the trenches is that war is useless, wasteful, stupid and there are never any winners.

only those that lose less.

I never gamble, but for those that do, i'd say that was sucky odds.

the sooner humans figure out that they HAVE to stop this bullshit war thing, the better. there is nothing about war to be proud of.

nothing

making peace, however, takes real courage and determination

 

[faethor]

what I learned from a man who WAS in the trenches is that war is useless, wasteful, stupid and there are never any winners...

making peace, however, takes real courage and determination

War is the last restore of failed agreements. It's one Country's attempt to dicatate demands of another Country. They are sometimes necessary. Though the US has been involved in roughly 192 armed conflicts since 1776. (That's a number I heard recently by a war historian on program.) A large number could have been avoided with better dipolmatic skills or respect of another nation's right to self determination.

 

[cecilia]

what I learned from a man who WAS in the trenches is that war is useless, wasteful, stupid and there are never any winners...

making peace, however, takes real courage and determination

War is the last restore of failed agreements. It's one Country's attempt to dicatate demands of another Country. They are sometimes necessary. Though the US has been involved in roughly 192 armed conflicts since 1776. (That's a number I heard recently by a war historian on program.) A large number could have been avoided with better dipolmatic skills or respect of another nation's right to self determination.

not to mention that moronic Civil War!

if Americans aren't embarrassed because some of them wanted to keep slaves 'cause it would affect their incomes not to, well I just don't understand it.

they should hide their faces in shame

 

[minator]

It is always great theater to listen to armchair quarterbacks that haven't a clue, or experience, try to tell the world the proper way to fight a war.

So why exactly are you calling a guy with 32 years experience an idiot?

 

[Fade]

Minator asked
"So why exactly are you calling a guy with 32 years experience an idiot?"
------------------------------------

Can't figure it out Minator?

Your manning the guard post and a taxi is bearing down on the main gate, but you hold your fire because there are children hanging out of every window. The taxi rams the gate and explodes, killing yourself and the 10 other guys at the guard post.

Do you really think you deserve a medal for "Courageous Restraint"?
What do the families of the 10 dead guys think of your new medal?
Is the guy, with 32 years experience, that thought up this medal an idiot?

 

[Glaucus]

I guess in your mind you don't need to win the heart and minds if you instead just incinerate them from 30,000 feet, eh?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Minator asked
Your manning the guard post and a taxi is bearing down on the main gate, but you hold your fire because there are children hanging out of every window. The taxi rams the gate and explodes, killing yourself and the 10 other guys at the guard post.

Soldiers are property of the US government that supplies them with a living and decides on how many and in which ways they are willing to let them die if it helps meet the objectives. If you need to hold a bridge and find that the cost of a few hundred ordinary lives is outweighed by the utility of holding the bridge then it is a price worth paying. It was ever so.

Theirs not to make reply,
Theirs not to reason why,
Theirs but to do & die,

-Tennyson

So, if the taxi was full of kids and they let it explode - the terrorists look bad. This is a victory for the US - it gets the people on the US side. Horrible terrorists blowing up innocent kids to get at soldiers.
It is also not going to happen. The locals are not going to load up a car with kids and blow it up for exactly the same reason - it makes them look bad.

Far more likely is that it will be a civilian driving the car and there are no explosives. If the soldiers shoot up his family then perhaps the troops won't die right then and there - but more will die later because you have pissed off the locals and shown yourselves to be worse than worthless.

You only think this guy is stupid because he is thinking several steps beyond you and you just don't get it.

What do the families of the 10 dead guys think of your new medal?

They might just think that someone is making a big mistake having all their guys stand close together when they feel that the threat of bombs is high.

 

[Robert]

Beyond parody.