Final Debate

faethor

faethor

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Winner -- Obama.... 3 for 3.

While not important for a President McCain isn't good to watch. I think I figured it out only his bottom lip moves. Too much botax?

Anyway onto the important items. The issues. First, it was sad to see 3 debates and mainly the same topics covered. Last night entered a few more issues which was nice.

Part of McCain's problem was he appeared to play the victim. All the negative ads were on him. The whole reason for the tone of the debates was that Obama wouldn't kowtow to his request for weekly broadcast Town Hall. So he was just going along with what Obama forced. Whatever.

Healthcare and Abortion... Obama clearly won both points. The reason I say Obama won Abortion was that McCain air quoted woman's healthcare. Stupid move.

Obama's answers were often more complex in nature and description and I think he did a good job at boiling down the ideas.

McCain seemed to want to play the sound bite personal attack game. I think it made him look more petty than anything else. Focus on the opponents issues not on the personality. I think this added to the feel that he was a victim and had to lash back. Obama played it right stick to the topics not the personalities and keep a calm collected look.

Bad was the ending of the education debate. I thought that one was a draw until McCain got in the last swipe. That swipe seemed to me said he wasn't listening to Obama's point.
 
I apologize for the verbosity with which my reply is submitted.

"I agree" however sums it up nicely.

When Obama had to say (at least twice), "John, I think the American people are a little more concerned with the tough issues than our hurt feelings", then McCain prattled on about irrelevant hurt feelings, it was over.

Wayne
 
faethor said:
Winner -- Obama.... 3 for 3.

While not important for a President McCain isn't good to watch. I think I figured it out only his bottom lip moves. Too much botax?

Anyway onto the important items. The issues. First, it was sad to see 3 debates and mainly the same topics covered. Last night entered a few more issues which was nice.

Part of McCain's problem was he appeared to play the victim. All the negative ads were on him. The whole reason for the tone of the debates was that Obama wouldn't kowtow to his request for weekly broadcast Town Hall. So he was just going along with what Obama forced. Whatever.

Healthcare and Abortion... Obama clearly won both points. The reason I say Obama won Abortion was that McCain air quoted woman's healthcare. Stupid move.

Obama's answers were often more complex in nature and description and I think he did a good job at boiling down the ideas.

McCain seemed to want to play the sound bite personal attack game. I think it made him look more petty than anything else. Focus on the opponents issues not on the personality. I think this added to the feel that he was a victim and had to lash back. Obama played it right stick to the topics not the personalities and keep a calm collected look.

Bad was the ending of the education debate. I thought that one was a draw until McCain got in the last swipe. That swipe seemed to me said he wasn't listening to Obama's point.
Click to expand...

While I think this was McCain's "best of show" and that he FINALLY got in some good points (long overdue) it was too late. To me, McCain was ahead in the first half but all but folded in the second half (although I do prefer his idea of a spending freeze as a starting point).

To me this debate was another draw. McCain didn't pull off the solid win that he should have and Obama did "no harm" to quote one pundit on CNN.

Let's see what happens in the remaining time...

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
Being famous may not be all good for Joe the plumber

First off, it looks like he might benefit from Obama's tax plan after all.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/Stor ... 360&page=2

It also turns out that Joe may be doing plumbing work, but he technically isn't a plumber, at least a licensed one. In those circumstances, I don't know if I would have wanted to draw so much attention to myself, but whatever.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenb ... umber.html

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dl ... /810160418

Also - the guy's last name is Wurzelbacher. Apparently he is related to the Wurzelbacher guy who was up to his eyeballs in the whole Keating Five mess. That does not automatically mean he is somehow tainted by that, but the fact that there is a connection is not going to help the McCain/Palin campaign, in that it will just be another way of dragging the whole Keating Five thing back out for people to talk about.

http://www.eisenstadtgroup.com/2008/10/ ... ting-oops/
 
Re: Being famous may not be all good for Joe the plumber

eleventhma said:
First off, it looks like he might benefit from Obama's tax plan after all.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/Stor ... 360&page=2

It also turns out that Joe may be doing plumbing work, but he technically isn't a plumber, at least a licensed one. In those circumstances, I don't know if I would have wanted to draw so much attention to myself, but whatever.

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/achenb ... umber.html
Click to expand...
Turns out Joe refuses to pay taxes as he has a tax lien on his home.

Can Joe even buy the business? It's a 2 person company with him and the other guy. If the other guy is making $250K+ profits a year I can't imagine he's paying Joe enough to warrant a take over by the working Joe.

On the radio today they talked about the extra cost for the Obama tax plan. Turns out $250K in profits (not revenues) is more expensive. Looking at small businesses by profits around 95% of small businesses would not qualify for extra taxes. If the profit is $270K the Obama cost is $600 more or a .22% loss of profits. Comparing to revenues it's clearly a drop in the bucket.

No one likes paying taxes. But, it's the cost for a civilized society.

EDIT: Here is the Joe the Plumber meets Barack video. He claims he's getting ready to buy a company that makes $250, $270, $280K per year. Makes? There's 2 plumbers here. Plumbers average income is around $45K per year. Assuming Joe is the average Joe-6-pack McCain claims then he's getting about $45K/year. The owner might be making a bit more in salary, sometimes small company owners make less because they're putting it back into the business. After subtracting the costs of business (taxes, truck, materials, interest on loans, salary, etc.) I think this company making $280K per year in profits would be a statistical outlier. Likely the profits are less then the $250K Joe is worried about and Obama's plan would therefore be the better. Al the plumber Amazingly (not really) the problem isn't this $600 Joe is worried about and holds him back from hiring more people but instead with a faultering economy there is less work, higher material costs, and job profits are down.
 
I watched it last night and thought McCain was a bit too keen to go down the, "that boy called me names" route. Obama didn't handle the absurd, "Joe the plumber" stuff very well but I thought he still came across far better than McCain.

Not that any of this makes a difference to the election. I still think McCain will edge it.
 
If I was debating...

If I was debating Piccard (that poetry loving tea sipping egg head) and he began to wax eloquently about some liberal hollow philosophy, I would drop kick him faster than you could say, “He Dead Jim!” 8)
 
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