Forget the dying veterans and the va scandal... look! over there!

Wayne

Wayne

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Anyone else find it interesting that the President exchanged a traitor for FIVE of the top terrorists in the world just to get the VA scandal (a potentially deadly scandal at that) pushed off the front page?

Wayne
 
Meh... I'm not sure why he's catching so much flak over this one. He released 5 guys who were likely not of much value where they were. Releasing them to watch where they go, and who they talk to may well be much more valuable. At worst, they'll simply be killed by their former associates before anything useful is obtained. At best, they might lead us to a much more valuable target or two. Compared against just letting them sit around and rot, I'd say it's a smart deal.

And it brought home one (questionably deserter) American.

I just don't see the problem.
 
I can't imagine the five terrorists were somehow "geotagged", so following them around in the sand would be problematic at best, as such, no value there outside the fact that we're no longer responsible for paying to feed and house them.

There is a much larger potential that they be used as "heroes" and "rally cries" for the Taliban and insurgents now that they're free.

As for Bergdahl, I take the word of his fellow soldiers, most of whom qualify him as -- at best -- a deserter but more likely a traitor who helped train the Taliban in both explosives and tactics. Someone who hampered the war effort and (in)directly caused the death of 14 American soldiers out of the thousands who were tasked to look for him.

My experiences with military personnel over the last 25 years, along with everything I've read on the deal tells me that he should be put in Leavenworth for the rest of his life, not celebrated as some sort of returning hero, and CERTAINLY not someone worth releasing 5 confirmed terrorists over.

Wayne
 
That being said, I'm more upset that the VA scandal which should end this fiasco of a presidency has been quietly pushed off of the front page.
 
Wayne said:
That being said, I'm more upset that the VA scandal which should end this fiasco of a presidency has been quietly pushed off of the front page.
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Well, yeah.... You won't find any argument, there. The VA has been screwed for a long time, and quietly covering that up is a disgrace. I'm not sure I'd put it all on Obama... But, like so many items during his presidency, he hasn't lifted a finger to improve the situation, that's for sure.

I can't imagine the five terrorists were somehow "geotagged", so following them around in the sand would be problematic at best, as such, no value there outside the fact that we're no longer responsible for paying to feed and house them.
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I can't imagine they aren't going to be observed. And they're now easily identifiable.

There is a much larger potential that they be used as "heroes" and "rally cries" for the Taliban and insurgents now that they're free.
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We outwaited the imperialist dogs isn't much of a rallying cry. But if it were to happen, that would probably be a best case scenario, as you'd then have someone easily identifiable within those terrorist groups. That makes identifying the people you didn't previously know so much easier. Almost all of American intelligence is built upon assembling the pieces of who you associate with. The "meta-data" that is so talked about. If they're dumb enough to take him back, we can take down the whole cell.
 
Well, technically he wasn't a traitor. And those 5 guys would be released eventually anyway, might as well get an American back for your troubles. It's typical when combat ends that nations exchange POWs, I see this along those lines. And like Ilwrath said, those Five Guys are likely to end up dead soon (although really, they'd be wise to open up a burger joint instead).

If this is eclipsing the VA scandal it's the Republicans own fault. They are the ones making a fuss about it instead of focusing on the VA issue. And the idea that the timing was planned to distract from the VA issue is a bit much as it seems the prisoner exchange was in the works for months and years involving agents outside of Obama's control (ie. Taliban), nor could one believe Obama planned the VA issue to coincide with the exchange. It's a bit of a stretch.
 
I'd much rather stick to the topic... the VA's situation is indefensible and unforgivable. While it is true that President Obama didn't start this problem (the VA has been broken for decades), he did campaign on fixing the VA as far back as 2008. But then again, his track record on what he says vs. does isn't exactly on track, or transparent... as he promised... ahem...

Regards,
Ltstanfo
 
ltstanfo said:
I'd much rather stick to the topic... the VA's situation is indefensible and unforgivable. While it is true that President Obama didn't start this problem (the VA has been broken for decades), he did campaign on fixing the VA as far back as 2008. But then again, his track record on what he says vs. does isn't exactly on track, or transparent... as he promised... ahem...

Regards,
Ltstanfo
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and who is really responsible

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/anthony-w-orlando/va-scandal-funding_b_5414685.html
 
ltstanfo said:
I'd much rather stick to the topic... the VA's situation is indefensible and unforgivable. While it is true that President Obama didn't start this problem (the VA has been broken for decades), he did campaign on fixing the VA as far back as 2008. But then again, his track record on what he says vs. does isn't exactly on track, or transparent... as he promised... ahem...
Click to expand...

Very true, here. As far as I can tell, Obama is the least effective president within my lifetime. Possibly ever. It's hard to think of someone who has done less. We went from 8 years of doing all the wrong things to 8 years of talking about doing some things that might have been better, but then not actually doing anything at all.
 
ilwrath said:
Very true, here. As far as I can tell, Obama is the least effective president within my lifetime. Possibly ever. It's hard to think of someone who has done less. We went from 8 years of doing all the wrong things to 8 years of talking about doing some things that might have been better, but then not actually doing anything at all.
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You know, it's very hard to know what presidents actually do - but what they SHOULD do, and the only thing they SHOULD do is execute the laws of the representatives.

This whole "President going to congress to win support ..." blah blah is COMPLETELY bogus. The job of the president is MANAGER. The idea that he's supposed to be a leader is Cheneyism.

The house legislates. The Courts check what the house does against the laws to make sure the legislation is sound, and the president runs the governmental machine that puts the legislation into practice.

President worship is the province of dictatorships - but hey, don't everyone love having an emperor rule ever them?
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
You know, it's very hard to know what presidents actually do - but what they SHOULD do, and the only thing they SHOULD do is execute the laws of the representatives.

This whole "President going to congress to win support ..." blah blah is COMPLETELY bogus. The job of the president is MANAGER. The idea that he's supposed to be a leader is Cheneyism.

The house legislates. The Courts check what the house does against the laws to make sure the legislation is sound, and the president runs the governmental machine that puts the legislation into practice.
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Meh, I both agree and disagree. Roles change somewhat over time. The modern president needs to be a "Wrangler in Chief" as well as a manager.

You could argue that this is because of a completely broken House and Senate. And I'd agree. But there it is. You can either sit around and no nothing, or browbeat them into getting something done that might actually help. Unfortunately, Obama has consistently chosen the former, and been completely unable to execute the latter.
 
ilwrath said:
You could argue that this is because of a completely broken House and Senate. And I'd agree. But there it is.
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It's not the president's job to fix the house and senate, it's yours.
The way it's supposed to work is you pick the house and senate and tell them what to do and the president makes sure it gets done. The system doesn't work if the representatives ignore the people and do whatever the heck they want and then the president ignores the representatives.

If people imagine it's the presidents job to fix anything then they let themselves off the hook. If everybody in the US took an hour a month to do something like writing a senator or representative or called their office that would be about 300,000 hours of attention per representative and senator. It would scare the cr@p out of them. But they know that people are lazy and apathetic and clueless. That's where the problem is, not in the president. You get the president you deserve. The next one will be just as bad.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
It's not the president's job to fix the house and senate, it's yours.
The way it's supposed to work is you pick the house and senate and tell them what to do and the president makes sure it gets done. The system doesn't work if the representatives ignore the people and do whatever the heck they want and then the president ignores the representatives.
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Well, that's all well and good in an ideal world. But we don't have one of those, so I guess that excuses a completely ineffectual president of all blame? The representatives have been a broken disaster at least as far back as the Reagan era, and probably further than that (though that is as far back as I know...)... Yet Reagan, both Bushs, and Clinton all managed to get stuff done. Hell, Clinton even managed a somewhat balanced budget!! Can you imagine that?

Yes, the situation is not ideal. I understand it's bad. No, none of the representatives I voted for actually won, anything. I still don't think that absolves Obama from being a complete failure.
 
The President is not supposed to babysit the congress

and congress has been broken for a long time...if it hadn't been broken they would have voted down cheney's war

but congress has been particularly egregious these last several years
 
ilwrath said:
Well, that's all well and good in an ideal world. But we don't have one of those, so I guess that excuses a completely ineffectual president of all blame?
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Nope, but one of the problems is that you don't know if he's been ineffectual because you don't know what he's supposed to do nor who he's working for.
Gitmo is still open. Libya has been destroyed, US troops are going to Africa. Ukraine has been half taken over, working on the rest, more anti-missile systems are going to eastern Europe to kill off Russia's retaliatory strike capabilities. Sure he hasn't been able to topple the government of Venezuela but he's trying.
The bankers didn't go to jail. The mortgage fraudsters didn't go to jail. You think that sort of thing just happens by itself?
Whistle blowers and journalists are going to jail or at least fleeing the country. That espionage act keeps getting thrown at people for just about anything.
Occupy was routed and dismantled. The NSA has expanded. Billions keep going to defence contractors.
It's really hard to claim he hasn't been effective.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Nope, but one of the problems is that you don't know if he's been ineffectual because you don't know what he's supposed to do nor who he's working for.
Gitmo is still open. Libya has been destroyed, US troops are going to Africa. Ukraine has been half taken over, working on the rest, more anti-missile systems are going to eastern Europe to kill off Russia's retaliatory strike capabilities. Sure he hasn't been able to topple the government of Venezuela but he's trying.
The bankers didn't go to jail. The mortgage fraudsters didn't go to jail. You think that sort of thing just happens by itself?
Whistle blowers and journalists are going to jail or at least fleeing the country. That espionage act keeps getting thrown at people for just about anything.
Occupy was routed and dismantled. The NSA has expanded. Billions keep going to defence contractors.
It's really hard to claim he hasn't been effective.
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LOL! True. Though even the Democrats argue that most of those things were just outcomes of events set in motion by Bush. :D
 
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