Get thee to the back of the bus

FluffyMcDeath

FluffyMcDeath

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Very interesting - reality is convoluted, complicated further by religion.
 
At least women don't have to wear those silly hats!
 
Glaucus said:
At least women don't have to wear those silly hats!
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Ha! Yes, those things are quite something.

However, I found the modesty movement interesting with some Jewish women wearing what amounts to a burqa.

But the fact that some forms of "orthodoxy" are determined to live by Torah law and anyone elses law be damned is a big reason Jews have been kicked out of so many countries - they are basically ungovernable and subversive to local authority. Now it seems that they are doing the same thing in Israel. I wonder if we will see pogroms taking place inside the Jewish state.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
But the fact that some forms of "orthodoxy" are determined to live by Torah law and anyone elses law be damned is a big reason Jews have been kicked out of so many countries - they are basically ungovernable and subversive to local authority.
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News to me. Any links for this?
 
I think it's fair to say that any religious group that has a strict set of rules can undermine local laws. This is certainly not limited to Jews. Muslims are also guilty of this and is one of the main reasons I oppose allowing Sharia law to be used. Heck, we still have honor killings here in Canada. We also have Christian polygamists in the US and Mennonites here in Manitoba.

I imagine what Fluffy is referring to is more historical. WW2 would be one example. Many Christian puritans were "encouraged" to leave Europe back when the US & Canada were founded. Turks kicked out Christians in the 1950s. And it probably won't be long before Greece kicks out Muslims (assuming they default and get kicked out of the EU, they'll probably turn to ultra-nationalists).
 
Robert said:
News to me. Any links for this?
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If you watched the video there was a short clip in there of a guy telling the female reporter that it was against the law for her to be some place and when pressed said that he was referring to Talmudic law. Now, on the one hand you could say that it's their neighbourhood and they can do what they want there because it's not like it conflicts with the law of the land but often it actually does and many ultra religious communities don't give a damn and it makes perfect sense too. Given the choice between following laws written by a bunch of politicians or following laws dictated by God, which ones are you going to follow when the two don't agree?

This is the very real problem behind the Muslim immigration into Europe - as far as the European governments are concerned. Many among the Muslims do not have a primary allegiance to the national government but to Islam instead. Many Jews have a primary allegiance to the Torah. It is controversial to say that because Islam and Judaism are often viewed as "proper" religions, but the same sort of thing is true of other religions and it's far more socially acceptable to recognize it in Scientology, for example, though the basic loyalty dynamics are the same.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
If you watched the video there was a short clip in there of a guy telling the female reporter that it was against the law for her to be some place and when pressed said that he was referring to Talmudic law. Now, on the one hand you could say that it's their neighbourhood and they can do what they want there because it's not like it conflicts with the law of the land but often it actually does and many ultra religious communities don't give a damn and it makes perfect sense too. Given the choice between following laws written by a bunch of politicians or following laws dictated by God, which ones are you going to follow when the two don't agree?

This is the very real problem behind the Muslim immigration into Europe - as far as the European governments are concerned. Many among the Muslims do not have a primary allegiance to the national government but to Islam instead. Many Jews have a primary allegiance to the Torah. It is controversial to say that because Islam and Judaism are often viewed as "proper" religions, but the same sort of thing is true of other religions and it's far more socially acceptable to recognize it in Scientology, for example, though the basic loyalty dynamics are the same.
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Yeah, I agree with all that. I just meant evidence of that being a major reason for Jews, "being kicked out of so many countries." I've never seen convincing evidence of that.
 
Robert said:
Yeah, I agree with all that. I just meant evidence of that being a major reason for Jews, "being kicked out of so many countries." I've never seen convincing evidence of that.
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What. You think it was just irrational hatred?
 
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