Guns, freeze dried food, bomb shelters

[redrumloa]

I'm going to be buying my first firearm home protection. I am thinking 12 gauge shotgun and slugs. Any thoughts if a handgun would be preferable for home protection?

Freeze dried food or MREs? From a quick search, MREs look expensive with a short shelf live. Any freeze dried food I have sampled in the past was barely palatable. Anyone here have more experience and/or advice? I have a lot of mouths to feed.

And finally bomb shelters, anyone here have one? Done research?

 

[Glaucus]

Guns, MRE's and bomb shelters? I guess it depends what you think you need protection from?

EDIT: At any rate, I think a shotgun is a poor choice. I'd go with a pistol. Quick to reload and better suited for close quarter combat. And attach a small flashlight to it (unless you can afford night vision goggles). Plus you can shoot someone in your kitchen and not worry about buckshot bouncing around damaging everything. And if you just wanna shoot someone in the leg to immobilize them so you can stick their head in a vice and force them to tell you who sent them; a pistol works for me every time.

- Mike

 

[redrumloa]

Guns, MRE's and bomb shelters? I guess it depends what you think you need protection from?

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. I still see potential for a Great Depression II and see that potential getting worse and worse with each bonehead move of the gov.

The bomb shelter is a stretch, but a weakened and crippled USA? A rejuvinated Russia (Soviet Union) and growth of Red China.. Plus, you and I both know terrorists are working towards a nuclear attack, even if it is just a dirty bomb attack. It is possible.

 

[Robert]

I thought this was tongue in cheek........... and seriously, bomb shelters?

All sounds a bit paranoid to me.

I'm supposed to be visiting your country in a couple of days time. I'd be coming nowhere near it if I thought I'd have any requirement for *any* of the items you listed.

 

[redrumloa]

I thought this was tongue in cheek........... and seriously, bomb shelters?

I said bomb shelter was a stretch, but I'm looking at everything. Pre-9/11 people would have scoffed at any sort of terrorist attack on the USA.

All sounds a bit paranoid to me.

I'm supposed to be visiting your country in a couple of days time. I'd be coming nowhere near it if I thought I'd have any requirement for *any* of the items you listed.

So says the person who has never lived through a natural disastear. I've lived through several major hurricanes (Andrew, Wilma etc) and seen the worst of human nature that comes with such situations. As bad as those were, they have the potential to be much, much worse.

-Edit- BTW you picked NYC, but you said "I'd be coming nowhere near it if I thought I'd have any requirement for *any* of the items you listed."? NYC is like South Florida on crack. Be careful.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Bomb shelter? Not likely to be useful as a *bomb* shelter but a shelter is a good thing, that is a hardened defensible position, could be in your own house but fire is a risk. So, a hardened room that is defensible and escapable. A dirty bomb or nuke is good for making news but not really effective for overthrowing a country. If one goes it'll probably not be near enough to you to get you. New York would be the target there, or DC.

AR15s were popular when Ike was on its way, I hear. The further away you can stop a threat the better so a rifle is good to have. You have to practice with it though else you may as well not have anything. It'll also work pretty well in close quarters and you can get a 90 round snail clip so you won't have to worry about reloading for a while.

Food? Dried means you need either potable water or water and cooking fuel. I have a fair amount of dried foods but I have a lot of wood and it rains a lot here Your climate may vary. Cans of ready cooked whatever can be opened and eaten cold and looted locally - but you have to be first or close to it.

Other things I've contemplated are fuel and booze and soap but as they would be tradable but they're not worth storing long term just in case, but they go on the looting list.

Finally, escape plan. You just might eventually need to get out of town and you need a place to go and a means to get there. I don't even know what I'd do if it came to that. A boat would be good because I'm less than 1km from the river and pretty close to the coast, but if I had a well stocked boat sitting moored would it even be there by the time I wanted it? Likely somebody would have found it and taken off with it before I got around to leaving.

 

[redrumloa]

@Fulffy

Thanks for the response, good food for thought. As a bomb shelter, it could also be a fallout shelter. While NYC and DC would likely be primary targets, they may be harder to get post 9/11. I am concerned Miami could also be a target as there are several major ports and a high profile area. Florida at it's closest point is only ~90 miles away from Cuba and illegals make it ashore almost daily (wet foot, dry foot policy). If illegals can do it, the bad guys can too.

For water, South Florida typically gets a ton of it. In the summer it is almost every day. If I was to go whole hog and get a shelter, I'd have to get a water decontaminator (and air scrubber). The costs are probably getting out of range, but it is still something I am considering.

Escape plan would be nice, but it is a solid ~7 hour drive just to get out of the state. If there was a true panic, the few highways would be gridlocked. Booze? I practically never touch the stuff, almost completely dry for 6 years. However if things got that bad, I might brew up some moonshine. Got any plans to make a still? :wink:

 

[ltstanfo]

I'm going to be buying my first firearm home protection. I am thinking 12 gauge shotgun and slugs. Any thoughts if a handgun would be preferable for home protection?

Freeze dried food or MREs? From a quick search, MREs look expensive with a short shelf live. Any freeze dried food I have sampled in the past was barely palatable. Anyone here have more experience and/or advice? I have a lot of mouths to feed.

And finally bomb shelters, anyone here have one? Done research?

Jim,

While everyone is entitled to their opinions, I find that either a shotgun or pistol is best for home defense, based on my training and practice. A rifle, while nice and impressive based on visual, is really limited in its use in close quarters (bullet velocity travelling through multiple walls, across the street, etc... legal matters). Were I to choose a shotgun, I would get one with a short barrel and flashlight mount. Using a shotgun for home defense will require regular training to be effective (tactics for use - inluding deployment and retention as well as pattern control).

A handgun is easier to use in close quarters but it presents its own problems. Here again training and tactics are essential. If you decide on a handgun be sure to get training. Most people buy handguns and never realize just what it takes to effectively use one in a defensive situation. There is alot more to it than just "point and shoot".

I am not recommending anything in particular but I find the Norinco M97 Trench Gun and a Walther P-88 to be particularly "interesting". :wink:

Shelf stable foods - MREs are the only way to go. Provided that you are buying genuine packs and not some cheap knock-off, MREs have a minimum useful life of 5 years (provided that seals remain intact). They are the easiest to store, prepare and eat. You can also get inexpensive water purifying equipment, be they tablets (holozin) or filter straws so water in your area will not be an issue.

"Bomb" or storm shelters are a neat idea but impracticle in areas where the water table is high (anything less than 30ft below ground and water will ultimately seep up into a shelter). In such cases a hardened room in a house is a better bet.

Hope this helps. If you're serious about firearms we can discuss it further in detail. 8)

Regards,
Ltstanfo

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Booze? I practically never touch the stuff, almost completely dry for 6 years.

Not for you. But it can have trade value in a prolonged emergency. Since that sort of thing is an outside case it's probably not worth stockpiling even though it will last forever. Like eggs and meat, it can get valuable and it can help lubricate deals. To be serious you need to take over a warehouse and a criminal gang would be more likely to have the resources to do that. I like the moonshine still though.

 

[Robert]

I thought this was tongue in cheek........... and seriously, bomb shelters?

I said bomb shelter was a stretch, but I'm looking at everything. Pre-9/11 people would have scoffed at any sort of terrorist attack on the USA.

Really? What about Timothy McVeigh?

BTW you picked NYC, but you said "I'd be coming nowhere near it if I thought I'd have any requirement for *any* of the items you listed."? NYC is like South Florida on crack. Be careful.

Well, I'll try but even still, if I thought I'd need a gun (or freeze dried food, let alone a bomb-shelter) to visit NYC, I wouldn't bother.
The way I see it, I'm as likely to get hit by a bus there as anything else happening.

 

[redrumloa]

Really? What about Timothy McVeigh?

Point well taken. I guess the thought being McViegh was more of a one-off kook (or a few kooks), opposed to a whole terrorist organisation targetting Americans.

Well, I'll try but even still, if I thought I'd need a gun (or freeze dried food, let alone a bomb-shelter) to visit NYC, I wouldn't bother.
The way I see it, I'm as likely to get hit by a bus there as anything else happening.

You missed the whole point of my post. I don't like the direction things are going and would like to be more prepared, couple that with the fact I live in hurricane alley. You coming to the NYC now, you should be fine. 2 different concepts at play. If the USA went into Great Depression II or if a cat 5 hurricane wided out NYC, you probably wouldn't be vacationing here.

 

[metalman]

I'm going to be buying my first firearm home protection. I am thinking 12 gauge shotgun and slugs. Any thoughts if a handgun would be preferable for home protection?

A slide-action/pump-action type shotgun with the shortest legal barrel (no choke), (e.g. trench gun) loaded with a light birdshot to shoot the widest pattern. Birdshot (so you don't shoot through the walls of your own house and the damage is repairable with spackle and paint, and its non-lethal at a distance. Rock salt is the traditional load for trespassers but then you have to load your own, and clean the gun after each firing.

Freeze dried food or MREs? From a quick search, MREs look expensive with a short shelf live. Any freeze dried food I have sampled in the past was barely palatable. Anyone here have more experience and/or advice? I have a lot of mouths to feed.

Modern MRE's are quite good, they are designed to be eaten after being warmed by boiling water not being heated in a microwave.

And finally bomb shelters, anyone here have one? Done research?

:shocked: Just move to Idaho!!! :wink:

Make the house itself a defendable position. Hurricane and burglar proofing your house is what you want to do.

Colonial style hurricane shutters (they fold together for protection, frontier style gun slots are optional :wink, Hurricane window glass, propane backup generator, propane tank, house wired with generator transfer switch, solar panels and battery bank, Steel entry doors and frames. Wrap around framing studs with sheetmetal so doors can't be kicked in.

Other things I've contemplated are fuel and booze and soap but as they would be tradable but they're not worth storing long term just in case, but they go on the looting list.

It's going to be hard to find someone to make change for gold coins to buy a loaf of bread, so it's important to have non-perishable tradeable items. Unless you think they're going to take your check or credit card. :wink: and a root cellar was the traditional place for food storage, before electricity and refrigeration. Setting yourself up to make a perishable item like ice, when everyone else needs it because they don't have electricity, is a good strategy.

 

[the_leander]

I'm going to be buying my first firearm home protection. I am thinking 12 gauge shotgun and slugs. Any thoughts if a handgun would be preferable for home protection?

A slide-action/pump-action type shotgun with the shortest legal barrel (no choke), (e.g. trench gun) loaded with a light birdshot to shoot the widest pattern. Birdshot (so you don't shoot through the walls of your own house and the damage is repairable with spackle and paint, and its non-lethal at a distance. Rock salt is the traditional load for trespassers but then you have to load your own, and clean the gun after each firing.

Have to agree with this and others here, you'll want something relatively short for indoor combat, most rifles are out due to size or if you go down the road of a carbine, lack the stopping power, same goes for a pistol, though more on the latter in a moment.

Birdshot sounds like it's probably your best bet from what I've seen here. At close range it'll render a target somewhat sieve like and seriously mess up a person's day at longer range. It'll not go through walls either for the most part. Salt is fine if you've issues with the idea of killing another human being, but the amount of cleaning required does make it something of a liability in a siege situation.

On pistols, small 22's mean you won't worry about going through walls but have about as much stopping power as a high power air rifle (IE sod all). 38's and 9mm will give you very effective stopping power but risk going through thinner walls, 45's are pretty much hand cannons - they're not that accurate simply because of the power and they will make significant inroads into something as solid as a car engine block, so walls will prove little resistance.

If you're considering a siege situation, also consider round size in terms of how much you can carry and how much you can store - the bigger the round the more room you'll need or wieght to carry.

But before you even consider purchasing a gun. Get professional training from an expert. You are far more of a danger to your loved ones then you are to anyone else if you have a weapon you don't know how to use and store propperly and (as ironic as this might sound) safely.

I do have to echo to a degree Robert's point about paranoia to a degree though (and before you come back with me about never having gone through a natural disaster, I've gone through 2 in my life, not as many as you I know, but I do have some handle on this), at some point you have to consider that if you feel where you live is that close to the knife edge, then perhaps it's time to go someplace safer.

I have to be honest here in flat out saying I consider anyone who would willingly live in a place prone to so many natural disasters as the south eastern US to be a bit tapped. Seriously, if it's as bad as you're making out, move - because that is no environment to bring up a child in.

 

[faethor]

I said bomb shelter was a stretch, but I'm looking at everything. Pre-9/11 people would have scoffed at any sort of terrorist attack on the USA.

We've had terrorists for a while. Anarchists in the late 1800s, Symbionese Liberation Army, Army of God, KKK, Black Panthers, 'Pro-life' killings of doctors, McVeigh... And well don't forget the Weatherman which people tie to Obama and Clinton...

 

[redrumloa]

I have to be honest here in flat out saying I consider anyone who would willingly live in a place prone to so many natural disasters as the south eastern US to be a bit tapped. Seriously, if it's as bad as you're making out, move - because that is no environment to bring up a child in.

I moved out of Florida in 2006 for many of the same reasons in this thread. Unfortunately employment issues became a major issue in why we came back in 2007. I was expecting a pay cut, but not a 60% or more pay cut. I work in commercial property management and basically my pay is tied to square feet of the property we manage. In Huntsville, there is almost no commerical office properties. The closest I found was residential maintenance positions, but the pay was pathetic. Gotta eat, gotta feed the kids. Once the kids all graduate, we will be out of here.

 

[the_leander]

I have to be honest here in flat out saying I consider anyone who would willingly live in a place prone to so many natural disasters as the south eastern US to be a bit tapped. Seriously, if it's as bad as you're making out, move - because that is no environment to bring up a child in.

I moved out of Florida in 2006 for many of the same reasons in this thread. Unfortunately employment issues became a major issue in why we came back in 2007. I was expecting a pay cut, but not a 60% or more pay cut. I work in commercial property management and basically my pay is tied to square feet of the property we manage. In Huntsville, there is almost no commerical office properties. The closest I found was residential maintenance positions, but the pay was pathetic. Gotta eat, gotta feed the kids. Once the kids all graduate, we will be out of here.

Surely there are other parts of the US where your qualifications would work to your advantage?

Last I checked the USA was a fairly big place.

But beyond this, I hope that your desision to go this road of seige status preperation remains just that. Good luck!

 

[metalman]

Their house survived Ike, but it's the only one left

Pre- and Post-Storm Photo Comparisons - Bolivar Peninsula, TX

Hi Res after photo

This house's lawn is still present. That lot where the house sits didn't erode like those around it for some reason: lawn grass, soil characteristics, or topography.

 

[faethor]

Surely there are other parts of the US where your qualifications would work to your advantage?

Last I checked the USA was a fairly big place.

Minnesota is one such place. Sure we're in the top third considering all taxes -- home, income, road, consumables.. We're 7th for education surely a big plus over Alabama or Florida for the kids. We lead the nation in healthcare, good if someone gets sick. Housing is affordable but not as cheap as Florida. But, one can offset our lower crime rate compared to the much higher rate in Florida. We might be more liberal but our rate of divorce and teen pregnancy is lower, family values in action not talk. Of course we have the snow but that keeps out the less hearty. Well and we steal all the homeless carboard homes to put in front of our radiators so they have to move south.