Heckler's veto

[metalman]

A heckler's veto occurs when an acting party's right to freedom of speech is curtailed or restricted by the government in order to prevent a reacting party's behavior.

Mob Riots Over Qur'an Burning

Terry Jones Says Afghan U.N. Violence 'Proves My Point'

Democrat Leader Harry Reid told Face the Nation today that the senate may probe the Koran burning incident in Florida.

seems they're forgetting this incident:
2005 Newsweek fictional story about Qur’an flushing


Terry Jones burns the Quran and as a result, violence has broken out in Afghanistan.

To argue that Terry Jones caused deaths in Afghanistan by burning a copy of the Koran, requires a suppressed premise, that the Muslim mob had no moral agency, e.g. that they are literally, animals.

Should Jones have burned the Koran? No, but not because doing so might incite mobs halfway around the world to commit atrocities, but because the Pastor behaved immorally, from a Christian viewpoint of morality, his actions caused atrocities against innocents.

From a secular legal viepoint? The threat of a Heckler’s Veto by mobs willing to undertake violence is not justification for restrictions on freedom of speech.

Naivety is thinking Islam is a religion of peace

 

[cecilia]

the problem is that the morons in Afghanistan should have released their anger Directly onto the moron in Florida and left the rest of us out of their violent bullshit.

they think their stupid religion is the center of the universe and wish to suck the rest of us into their vortex of insanity

I say take the FL nut and drop him in Afghanistan so they can blow each other up directly.

 

[Glaucus]

The problem is they're both idiots.

 

[redrumloa]

Democrat Leader Harry Reid told Face the Nation today that the senate may probe the Koran burning incident in Florida.

Oh really? What about the countless numbers of Bible burning and other desecrations of the Bible that occurs daily around the world? Why is the Koran more important to Harry Reid than the Bible?

 

[metalman]

Democrat Leader Harry Reid told Face the Nation today that the senate may probe the Koran burning incident in Florida.

Oh really? What about the countless numbers of Bible burning and other desecrations of the Bible that occurs daily around the world? Why is the Koran more important to Harry Reid than the Bible?

because Muslims will riot and kill over the Quaran

 

[metalman]

Inside the Massacre at Afghan UN Compound

"Inside the compound, a small contingent of Nepalese Gurkha guards working for the U.N. faced a conundrum: They were under U.N. orders not to open fire on demonstrators".

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Democrat Leader Harry Reid told Face the Nation today that the senate may probe the Koran burning incident in Florida.

Oh really? What about the countless numbers of Bible burning and other desecrations of the Bible that occurs daily around the world? Why is the Koran more important to Harry Reid than the Bible?

What about them? Nobody cares because nobody knows. Terry Jones is a Western media phenomenon. If the media ignored him he would be nothing and he could burn Qur'ans day and night to heat Hugh Hefner's orgy hot-tub or BBQ pork and not one single riot would happen because ... no-one would know therefore care.

This is just another campaign to provoke a violence response from Muslims. You think there wouldn't be an uproar in US Christian circles if some Iranian cleric held a Bible Burning Day? Heck, there are hardcore US Christians that would go on a shooting rampage if you said "Happy Holiday" to them at Christmas.

There is a PR campaign running for the last decade or so to make sure Americans know who the enemy is and it's Muslims. Anything that riles the Muslims (without offending non-Muslims) is good and anything they do when offended is good because everything that makes Muslims look crazy makes them more killable. The more the US kills Muslims the angrier they get and the more the religious insults spur angry reactions - and much more usable reactions too. You aren't going to see too much of the protests that always occur when civilians get killed by US military actions because those could be seen as justifiable. Violence over book burnings looks much more unreasonable though the constant attacks on Islamic nations feeds into the mood.

 

[metalman]

This is just another campaign to provoke a violence response from Muslims. You think there wouldn't be an uproar in US Christian circles if some Iranian cleric held a Bible Burning Day?

A mob of 4000 Muslims has attacked Coptic homes and burn church

Third church attacked as Pakistani extremists

Wherever one looks, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Wherever one looks, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors

Wherever one looks another Muslim country is being bombed or invaded by the Christian countries. Christians have trouble sharing the planet with non-Christians.

The fact that there ARE Christian churches in an Islamic country and that there have been for centuries shows that for large stretches of time Muslims CAN live peaceably with their neighbours but in case you hadn't noticed, there is a war on against Muslim nations and in times of war group identities harden and scores get settled.

Imagine if the Dixie Chicks had put down George Bush if there wasn't a war on. Nobody would have noticed. But, because there was a war on the propagandists tapped into the war mentality to marginalize anyone who spoke out against the war or the war president.

What is happening right now is not happening out of nothing - not even a Qur'an burning in an obscure church ... it grows out of history, mostly recent history.

 

[cecilia]

the nut in FL and the nuts in Kansas (fag hates god, or is that the other way around :mrgreen: ) and the nuts killing doctors because they object to abortions should all be dropped kicked to the moon.

I saw a report the other day where even some people in the media said the media shouldn't be reporting the nut in FL.

Personally it's not news to me. what? ANOTHER nut wants to do something stupid??
gee, what a surprise? :roll:

and idiots don't even realize their stings are being pulled

 

[Glaucus]

What about them? Nobody cares because nobody knows. Terry Jones is a Western media phenomenon. If the media ignored him he would be nothing and he could burn Qur'ans day and night to heat Hugh Hefner's orgy hot-tub or BBQ pork and not one single riot would happen because ... no-one would know therefore care.

Unless of course you upload it on youtube. From what I read there was no big media at the Koran burning, they video taped it themselves and uploaded it. That's why it took almost two weeks for the riots to take place after the initial burning. These guys didn't do it just to have some fun on their own, they wanted it to be seen.

This is just another campaign to provoke a violence response from Muslims.

Ya, so what even if it is? Cartoons of their profit also send them over the edge. Why should we be afraid of exercising our freedom of speech? Fact is we should be able to burn any book we want, bible or koran. If muslims were civilized they'd respond with burning a bible just to show Mr Jones how silly this whole thing is. Instead they go nuts and actually make Terry Jones look like he knows what he's talking about. These muslims that reacted this way are neanderthals as far as I'm concerned and I have no sympathy for them.

You think there wouldn't be an uproar in US Christian circles if some Iranian cleric held a Bible Burning Day?

I can send you links to US based porn sites that use the crucifix in a very shocking way, but it's protected free speech. I can make funny cartoons of Jesus Christ and not worry that someone will show at my house and shoot me in the face.

There is a PR campaign running for the last decade or so to make sure Americans know who the enemy is and it's Muslims.

Not all muslims are the same, but conservativism runs strong though out much of the Arab world and especially the militant groups. I find it kinda funny that you'll go to great lengths to attack the neo-cons at every opportunity, but defend the equally right-wing war mongers of the muslim world. To me they are both cut from the same cloth and it's no surprise that they hate each other. I only wish they could somehow all be placed on one island to fight it out. Then of course we'd drop a big fat bomb on who's ever left standing.

Anything that riles the Muslims (without offending non-Muslims) is good and anything they do when offended is good because everything that makes Muslims look crazy makes them more killable.

Problem is, murdering people because some idiot burned a book 10,000km away IS crazy. The real question is, why are we NOT killing them?

 

[faethor]

the nut in FL and the nuts in Kansas (fag hates god, or is that the other way around :mrgreen: ) and the nuts killing doctors because they object to abortions should all be dropped kicked to the moon.

I'm with you. Religious wacko 1 vs Religious wacko 2. The names of the religion of changed but not the fanaticalness.

"all the people that you made in your image, see them fighting
in the street 'cause they can't make opinions meet about God" -- Dear God, XTC

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Unless of course you upload it on youtube. From what I read there was no big media at the Koran burning, they video taped it themselves and uploaded it.

Tons of people have burned Qur'ans on youtube. None of those guys is Terry Jones, the man who the media made famous. He didn't get famous from youtube. He got famous in the news.

So now he's gone and done it and while it seems that he was ignored at home despite his youtubing, it looks like near the first paper to cover the story was The Express Tribune, affiliated with The International Herald Tribune which is the international arm of The New York Times. After that it went to the Pakistan assembly. It seems the news was funneled straight to Pakistan pretty much bypassing the west.

This is just another campaign to provoke a violence response from Muslims.

Ya, so what even if it is? Cartoons of their profit also send them over the edge.[/quote]/quote]
Also a deliberate campaign of provocation. It was childish and there was no rational or even newsworthy reason to run those cartoons which were, almost every one, utterly not funny. The cartoons had been commissioned by the Jyllands-Posten.
They subsequently rejected an unsolicited collection of cartoons on Jesus Christ claiming "low quality" and there was a backlash against Ahmadinejad when he suggested that papers publish cartoons making fun of the Holocaust pretty much demonstrating that free speech isn't the issue and that papers do self censor and that there are lots of people in the world who "can't take a joke"!

Why should we be afraid of exercising our freedom of speech?

Go ahead then. Publish some funny Holocaust cartoons, or even unfunny ones. Don't say "that's different" because it isn't. If you are afraid of how people will feel about you publishing that and afraid of what would happen to you then the situation is EXACTLY the same.

You are dealing with people on a deep emotional level - at the level of their identity. It doesn't matter that these things aren't rational, they are predictable. If you want to get in touch with someones rationality you can't get there by attacking their core or essence of their world view. That will only bring defensiveness and a shutting off of rationality.

[quote:3vkie7yz]You think there wouldn't be an uproar in US Christian circles if some Iranian cleric held a Bible Burning Day?

I can send you links to US based porn sites that use the crucifix in a very shocking way, but it's protected free speech. I can make funny cartoons of Jesus Christ and not worry that someone will show at my house and shoot me in the face.[/quote:3vkie7yz]
Are you an Iranian cleric?

Anything that riles the Muslims (without offending non-Muslims) is good and anything they do when offended is good because everything that makes Muslims look crazy makes them more killable.

Problem is, murdering people because some idiot burned a book 10,000km away IS crazy. The real question is, why are we NOT killing them?[/quote]

We ARE killing them - but we are dressing it up in "reasonable" and "noble" excuses. We are freeing them and making their lives better and protecting civilians and whatever other bullshit but the fact of the matter is that we ARE killing them at a prodigious rate and we are poisoning their children and compromising even their ability to reproduce. They have very good reasons to hate us and then to go pushing their buttons it's pretty easy to see how the frustration boils over.

Luckily there are always nutcases in every crowd so even in a peaceful crowd of 700,000 people you can still find 10 guys with masks smashing a window surrounded by every news camera in the area.

 

[metalman]

Wherever one looks, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors

Wherever one looks another Muslim country is being bombed or invaded by the Christian countries. Christians have trouble sharing the planet with non-Christians.

Muslims attack Hindu temple in Australia

Muslims attacked Hindus and forced dozens to flee their homes in Sindh province after a young Hindu boy committed the offense of drinking water from a cooler outside of a mosque.

Hindu temple attacked,Goddess picture torched in Ahmedabad

Muslims Riot, Hindu Temples Descecrated; Hindu Markets Looted

 

[faethor]

Wherever one looks, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors

Wherever one looks another Muslim country is being bombed or invaded by the Christian countries. Christians have trouble sharing the planet with non-Christians.

I'd agree Muslim is not purely peaceful. Though as you say Fluffy neither is Christianity and certainly Judiasm has it's problems too. The best course of action is realize any religion is based on trust in the unproveable. It makes no rational sense to kill people because their imaginary guy in the sky isn't your imaginary guy in the sky.

 

[faethor]

Wherever one looks, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors

Wherever one looks another Muslim country is being bombed or invaded by the Christian countries. Christians have trouble sharing the planet with non-Christians.

I'd agree Muslim is not purely peaceful. Though as you say Fluffy neither is Christianity and certainly Judiasm has it's problems too. The best course of action is realize any religion is based on trust in the unproveable. It makes no rational sense to kill people because their imaginary guy in the sky isn't your imaginary guy in the sky.

 

[Robert]

It makes no rational sense to kill people because their imaginary guy in the sky isn't your imaginary guy in the sky.

And it makes no sense to have an imaginary sky-guy in the first place.

If people can suspend their rational thought in order to believe obvious nonsense, we can't be that surprised when they act like crazy mentalists.

 

[metalman]

Wherever one looks, Muslims have problems living peaceably with their neighbors

Wherever one looks another Muslim country is being bombed or invaded by the Christian countries. Christians have trouble sharing the planet with non-Christians.

Five people, identified as Buddhists, have been killed in a drive-by shooting as they were sitting at an open-air tea shop, killed by Muslim separatists

Muslims attack Buddhist villagers, murder 5, wound 4

Muslims mob attacks Buddhist Monk

Mulsim separatists beheaded a rubber tapper and shot dead a school janitor, both Buddhists

Muslim separatists kill 3 female Buddhist teacherin two separate attacks in Thailand's Muslim-majority south