Lets See How Far This One Gets

[Dammy]

Lets see how far this new dictate from Obama admin gets with this one until a combined Islam and Christian religious entities scream about State intruding into religion.

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/free-sterilizations-must-be-offered-all-college-women-says-hhs

Yes Virginia, it is against the teachings of Islam to be sterilized as well as the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Yes Virginia, it is against the teachings of Islam to be sterilized as well as the teachings of the Catholic Church.

So if you are Catholic or Muslim don't get sterilized. Simple. But the Catholics and Muslims shouldn't get to dictate what everyone else can do. The Muslims and Jews don't do bacon. Do you want them to tell you that means everyone can't eat bacon? Do you want the Muslims to tell you that you can't have a beer? Do you want the snake handling, poison drinking Pentecostals making a law about what you should be doing on Sundays?

 

[cecilia]

EXACTLY, what IS the big deal? how is proving these services to others the same as forcing YOU to undergo them?

seriously, the religious are nutjobs. at least some of them. I know catholics who have said right in front of me that while they personally wouldn't want an abortion they aren't telling anyone else what to do. That's the reasonable way to think.

 

[redrumloa]

EXACTLY, what IS the big deal? how is proving these services to others the same as forcing YOU to undergo them?

Federal Government should not mandating a goddamn thing when it comes to health care. This is a power grab, nothing else. While the libs get all happy thinking Obama is the savior of women, in reality he is setting a precedent for further government control over the population. First mandating certain things be covered, next mandating people GET these operations.

BTW, what insurance provider does not currently cover getting tubes tied? Can you name one? Again, this is not a woman's health issue, this is a power grab issue.

 

[the_leander]

Federal Government should not mandating a goddamn thing when it comes to health care.

I'll look forward to seeing you on the picket lines with the recent introduction of both Texas and now Mississippi's state mandated coerced rape transvaginal ultrasound before abortion requirements then.

Yeah, didn't think so, also, it's been pointed out to you that the Government does have a legal responsibility toward toward the health of it's citizens. That you disagree with it is kinda irrelevant.

 

[redrumloa]

I'll look forward to seeing you on the picket lines with the recent introduction of both Texas and now Mississippi's state mandated coerced rape transvaginal ultrasound before abortion requirements then.

Yeah, didn't think so, also, it's been pointed out to you that the Government does have a legal responsibility toward toward the health of it's citizens. That you disagree with it is kinda irrelevant.

Not my problem you have not been paying attention. I will try one more time, maybe you will get it.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE MANDATING A GODDAMN THING WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH CARE.

What in this statement makes you think I would be happy about the state mandating such a thing? Government needs to stay out of health care, period.

 

[Dammy]

So if you are Catholic or Muslim don't get sterilized. Simple. But the Catholics and Muslims shouldn't get to dictate what everyone else can do. The Muslims and Jews don't do bacon. Do you want them to tell you that means everyone can't eat bacon? Do you want the Muslims to tell you that you can't have a beer? Do you want the snake handling, poison drinking Pentecostals making a law about what you should be doing on Sundays?

Problem for you Fluffy, it's not everyone but employees (and some students) they are paying for to have health insurance. If you don't like what they believe in, why in the world would you want to work for them or study under them?

 

[the_leander]

Not my problem

Heh, how did I know you'd say that.

you have not been paying attention. I will try one more time, maybe you will get it.

THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT SHOULD NOT BE MANDATING A GODDAMN THING WHEN IT COMES TO HEALTH CARE.

Requiring baseline requirements for insurance is part and parcel in requiring everyone to have coverage.

What in this statement makes you think I would be happy about the state mandating such a thing? Government needs to stay out of health care, period.

Comments like "Not my problem".

 

[the_leander]

Problem for you Fluffy, it's not everyone but employees (and some students) they are paying for to have health insurance. If you don't like what they believe in, why in the world would you want to work for them or study under them?

That assumes that everyone has choice. Of employees, choice right now their choices are very, very limited.

 

[Dammy]

EXACTLY, what IS the big deal? how is proving these services to others the same as forcing YOU to undergo them?

It's not about forcing employees (or students), it's about FORCING A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION TO GO AGAINST THEIR TEACHINGS by paying for something they believe is a sin. The State is not everyone's god and the State should respect the religious wishes if it's not imposing itself on non-believers who want nothing to do with them.

So when you are you heading down to the nearest Mosque and demand they pay for things that they find morally offensive?

 

[Dammy]

That assumes that everyone has choice. Of employees, choice right now their choices are very, very limited.

The employees have a choice, they can either pay it themselves (what a shocking idea!) or find a different job that might have insurance for them. This is about money and control over religions, and nothing else. Now those religious institutions do have alternatives, they could completely eliminate their insurance policies and be done with it or cut all hours except for 40 individuals to below 30 hours which means they are not required under Obamacare to supply health insurance coverage.

 

[the_leander]

It's not about forcing employees (or students), it's about FORCING A RELIGIOUS INSTITUTION TO GO AGAINST THEIR TEACHINGS by paying for something they believe is a sin.

Ah, so special pleading it is then.

The State is not everyone's god and the State should respect the religious wishes if it's not imposing itself on non-believers who want nothing to do with them.

That should be solely the preserve of the adherents, not the religious institutions, two can play this game.

So when you are you heading down to the nearest Mosque and demand they pay for things that they find morally offensive?

Here in the UK the Catholic church bitched and whined about demanding the right to discriminate against gays when it came to adoption. They lost. Result? They in some cases stopped offering adoption services, in others they got on with the job in a manner that was legal.

It is not the place of Religious institutions to dictate law to government. We here in Europe still have it ingrained in our collective conciousness what happens when you do. There is a good reason the "Church of England" is almost silent/dead: Because it knows full well if it sticks it's head up above the parapet it'll get taken off.

 

[the_leander]

The employees have a choice,

The freedom to starve is no freedom. In an economy where jobs are few and far between, your claims of there being available choice ring kinda hollow.

This is about money and control over religions, and nothing else.

Given how hard these religions are attempting to undermine and control government, I think it is only fair that the Government put them back in place. Unless of course, these institutions wish to start paying taxes again.

Now those religious institutions do have alternatives, they could completely eliminate their insurance policies and be done with it or cut all hours except for 40 individuals to below 30 hours which means they are not required under Obamacare to supply health insurance coverage.

There you go then.

 

[Dammy]

The freedom to starve is no freedom. In an economy where jobs are few and far between, your claims of there being available choice ring kinda hollow.

That is the individual (remember her/him?) to decide, not the central authority. This is not slavery, they wanted the job and the benefits on their own free will, they can leave any time they like if the compensation is not to their liking. Of course, the Mosques and Churches can simply stop carrying that expensive insurance. Once Obamacare kicks in, cut most of the staff's hours to below 30 hours and let them go fend for themselves in Medicaid. Makes everyone happy, right?

Given how hard these religions are attempting to undermine and control government, I think it is only fair that the Government put them back in place. Unless of course, these institutions wish to start paying taxes again.

There you go then.

I see a clear reason why my ancestors left England.

 

[Dammy]

Ah, so special pleading it is then.



That should be solely the preserve of the adherents, not the religious institutions, two can play this game.

Since the Church is directly funded by the adherents, why are you forcing the adherents to pay for something they believe is a sin?

 

[redrumloa]

Comments like "Not my problem".

You morphing into a wannabe Michael Moore?

 

[the_leander]

Since the Church is directly funded by the adherents, why are you forcing the adherents to pay for something they believe is a sin?

Taking the Catholic church as an obvious example, the vast majority of women seem to disagree with the church on it's stance on contraception.

Once again, you're ignoring the very people you claim to be fighting to protect.

That is the individual (remember her/him?) to decide, not the central authority.

I quite agree, it's up to the individual, not the "central authority". The difference is that some "central authorities" are demanding special exemptions based on ever changing interpretations of millennia old text. .

This is not slavery, they wanted the job and the benefits on their own free will, they can leave any time they like if the compensation is not to their liking.

Again "Freedom to starve is no freedom".

I see a clear reason why my ancestors left England.

Left? No mate, booted out. The Puritans were and remain anathema to personal freedom. Especially toward women.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I see a clear reason why my ancestors left England.

To escape state mandated religion.

 

[the_leander]

You morphing into a wannabe Michael Moore?

In truth the dig was beneath me and I apologise for it.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

This is not slavery, they wanted the job and the benefits on their own free will, they can leave any time they like if the compensation is not to their liking.

Under current economic conditions the people want jobs out of economic necessity. That is how the ruling classes like it and that is why they grind down the working classes and all the institutions that help the working classes. When there are many unemployed and few employers leaving becomes an untenable option. This makes employees fearful and compliant and employers happy. You can't take things from fearful employees that people who had a real choice would never accept.