Moscow

[Glaucus]

No one had anything to say about the bombings in Moscow?

Putin vows retribution on Moscow plotters

Vladimir Putin vowed Tuesday to “drag out of the sewer” the masterminds of the twin suicide bombing of the Moscow subway system that killed 39 people and left scores wounded.

Good luck with that Mr. Putin. So long as Russian troops are in Chechnya, Moscow will always be under the shadow of the "black widows."

 

[Wayne]

I can only guarantee you that Moscow will handle their situation one hell of a lot better, and with bigger balls than we have.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

I can only guarantee you that Moscow will handle their situation one hell of a lot better, and with bigger balls than we have.

You mean... kill every living thing in Chechnya? Hmmm. An excuse to mass troops right next to North Ossetia and Georgia. It would be kind of hard to pass that up.

 

[Glaucus]

It's hard to judge the true feelings of the Russian people, but it's not hard to see that Putin is likely to punish someone for this attack and I don't think it matters to him who. Who knows, this could be the beginning of the end for Putin, Russians felt he was their great protector, but now no one feels protected. No question that Putin sees this and will do his best to recreate his image of purity and strength (maybe save another TV crew from a hungry lion using his judo techniques?), but if attacks like this continue then ultimately the Russians may start seeing him as someone less then god like.

Those in Chechnya however will continue to suffer and like Fluffy suggested, I'm sure those in Georgia are taking note of any troop movements. Wouldn't it be hilarious if it somehow turns out that Georgia has links to Chechen terrorists? And by "links" I mean just like how Saddam had "links" to al-Qaeda.

 

[JoBBo]

I can only guarantee you that Moscow will handle their situation one hell of a lot better, and with bigger balls than we have.

I am not so sure. As part of your "war on terror", the US has supposedly spend 250 billion USD in Afghanistan and 750 billion USD in Iraq (source: costofwar.com). Hundreds of thousands of US soldiers were deployed to both countries.

While some people argue that this was an incredible waste of resources and lives, it sure sounds like a ballsy reaction to me.

It's hard to judge the true feelings of the Russian people

About 40 very unfortunate deaths are unlikely to shake up the Russian people. They have tolerated far worse for many years.

 

[Glaucus]

True, but just says before this attack we saw something else we haven't seen in Russia in a while: Russian opposition stage anti-Putin rallies

Thousands of people have taken to the streets of several Russian cities in protest at Prime Minister Vladimir Putin's policies.

The Communist Party, the Solidarity movement and human rights groups had organised the protests under the banner of A Day of Anger.

Of course, I've also read where many Russians now fear that Putin will only crack down harder on such protest in the name of fighting terrorism. But that too can backfire.

 

[Glaucus]

Kinda quiet here lately. Maybe this will stir the pot a bit: Why Suicide Bombers Haven't Struck American Subways

Robert Pape, a professor of political science at the University of Chicago, argued in his 2005 book Dying to Win: The Logic of Suicide Terrorism that suicide bombers are motivated not so much by Islamist (or any other kind of religious) fervor but, rather, by anger at foreign troops occupying their land.

Since then, as founding director of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, Pape has collected and analyzed a database of 2,668 suicide bombings carried out between 1980 and 2009—which has confirmed, even strengthened, his initial theory.

It turns out, Pape told me in a phone conversation today, that 96 percent of those suicide bombers were engaging in what they saw as acts of nationalist resistance to foreign military occupation; most of them were living within a few miles of where the bombing took place. (The Moscow subway bombers, it has been reported, were probably Muslims fighting for Chechen independence.)

 

[Robert]

Kinda quiet here lately. Maybe this will stir the pot a bit: Why Suicide Bombers Haven't Struck American Subways

Robert Pape, a professor of political science at the University of Chicago, argued in his 2005 book Dying to Win: The Logic of Suicide Terrorism that suicide bombers are motivated not so much by Islamist (or any other kind of religious) fervor but, rather, by anger at foreign troops occupying their land.

Since then, as founding director of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, Pape has collected and analyzed a database of 2,668 suicide bombings carried out between 1980 and 2009—which has confirmed, even strengthened, his initial theory.

It turns out, Pape told me in a phone conversation today, that 96 percent of those suicide bombers were engaging in what they saw as acts of nationalist resistance to foreign military occupation; most of them were living within a few miles of where the bombing took place. (The Moscow subway bombers, it has been reported, were probably Muslims fighting for Chechen independence.)

Hmmmm.... Pape's report was discussed on here before.
I don't think it gives any real explanation for why US subways haven't been targeted. Chechnya is a long way from Moscow. Baghdad is a long way from Madrid and London. If it's because nationals of the occupied country lived nearby, the same could be said of New York.

 

[Glaucus]

Kinda quiet here lately. Maybe this will stir the pot a bit: Why Suicide Bombers Haven't Struck American Subways

Robert Pape, a professor of political science at the University of Chicago, argued in his 2005 book Dying to Win: The Logic of Suicide Terrorism that suicide bombers are motivated not so much by Islamist (or any other kind of religious) fervor but, rather, by anger at foreign troops occupying their land.

Since then, as founding director of the Chicago Project on Security and Terrorism, Pape has collected and analyzed a database of 2,668 suicide bombings carried out between 1980 and 2009—which has confirmed, even strengthened, his initial theory.

It turns out, Pape told me in a phone conversation today, that 96 percent of those suicide bombers were engaging in what they saw as acts of nationalist resistance to foreign military occupation; most of them were living within a few miles of where the bombing took place. (The Moscow subway bombers, it has been reported, were probably Muslims fighting for Chechen independence.)

Hmmmm.... Pape's report was discussed on here before.
I don't think it gives any real explanation for why US subways haven't been targeted. Chechnya is a long way from Moscow. Baghdad is a long way from Madrid and London. If it's because nationals of the occupied country lived nearby, the same could be said of New York.

Not sure if you fully read the article I posted. I don't recall Pape's report, but it doesn't surprise me as it was released in 2005. However, the article I posted also mentions he has a new one coming out soon. Also, Richard Clarke is featured in this article as well, and he points out something interesting: The Madrid (and many other subway bombings) were not in fact suicide bombings - an important key word in the article I linked to. I suppose from a security point of view it makes no difference, but if you want to understand what goes through the minds of suicide bombers then this may be a key bit of info. In other words, anyone can halfheartedly plant a bomb on a subway and kill people for any whimsical reason, but to do it suicide-style requires a certain type of thinking.

 

[Robert]

Sorry, Mike, you've lost me.

When you posted a link to

Why Suicide Bombers Haven't Struck American Subways,

I thought you were arguing that

96 percent of those suicide bombers were engaging in what they saw as acts of nationalist resistance to foreign military occupation; most of them were living within a few miles of where the bombing took place,

was the reason.

Now I'm not sure what point you were making. Sorry dude.

Anyway, I've got to go play virtual golf so will have to catch up on this later.

 

[Glaucus]

I think part of the problem is that Slate likes to sensationalize their article titles. I don't think I was trying to make any real point just thought it was something interesting and that it might get people talking.

The article contradicts it's own title when it points out that there was a foiled NYC subway bombing attempt well before 9/11 (something I never heard of before). Also, Richard Clarke suggests that the real reason the US hasn't been hit is because it's much easier to kill Americans in Iraq then in America. I think what stuck out the most about the bit that I quoted was that what motivates the suicide bomber is freedom for his people and NOT some religious or ideological belief which is often attributed to the terror group that ultimately claims the attack.

If there's anything to take home from this it may be this: Give the people their freedom and maybe the suicide bomb attacks will stop. Unfortunately it may also mean that other types of attacks may continue.

 

[the_leander]

I can only guarantee you that Moscow will handle their situation one hell of a lot better, and with bigger balls than we have.

You mean... kill every living thing in Chechnya? Hmmm. An excuse to mass troops right next to North Ossetia and Georgia. It would be kind of hard to pass that up.

Lets face it, it was only a matter of time before some dipshit with access to explosives went up to Moscow and blew themselves up, causing yet another tidal wave of violence within the region.



Condolences to those who lost loved ones.