Obama is fake

[FluffyMcDeath]

John Pilger speaking last year. This is a short clip from a longer video
[youtube:1mm4apot]_3hZjwWe6Rc[/youtube:1mm4apot]

The longer version is here. You really should watch the long one if you have a half hour to spend.

 

[Robert]

The longer version is here. You really should watch the long one if you have a half hour to spend.

I just did. Thank you.

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

What's the last thing he said in that youtube film? "Junk" or "Trunk" politics?

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Btw. one thing I don't agree with him. Obama is not at the pinnacle of power. He's not almighty so to say.

Two things are interesting to me in this video, and that is:\
The question "Who is Obama"
In a good democracy, shouldn't it be publicly known to full extent what the resume of a presidential candidate is?

His point of the diffusion of the difference between a conventional and a nuclear war.
IIRC this was already a point of discussion in the first Iraq war, where marginalised uranium was used for bullets and caused many US soldiers to become ill?

 

[faethor]

Two things are interesting to me in this video, and that is:\
The question "Who is Obama"
In a good democracy, shouldn't it be publicly known to full extent what the resume of a presidential candidate is?

Of course it is. A democracy is only as good as the interest of the body. If the people are the government then the people have to pay attention. It wasn't as if Obama's resume is hard to find. Let's not blame the system for Citizens that cry a love of democracy but fail to do the minimal work to make the system go.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Two things are interesting to me in this video, and that is:\
The question "Who is Obama"
In a good democracy, shouldn't it be publicly known to full extent what the resume of a presidential candidate is?

If you take a look at other examples of Pilger's work you can see that he partly rails against the very terrible information infrastructure in places like the US. US media is as controlled as Chinese media but with the illusion of freedom. The news is managed by a small number of companies and there really isn't much diversity of opinion. That's why so many Americans believed that Saddam had WMDs and that he was involved in 9/11. The media, during elections, like to stay clear of any matters of substance. Anything platform that actually brought a platform and concrete proposals were actively ignored or ridiculed. Obama's wishy washy vague message of "hope" and "change" was just what the TV Nation was clamouring for.

His point of the diffusion of the difference between a conventional and a nuclear war.
IIRC this was already a point of discussion in the first Iraq war, where marginalised uranium was used for bullets and caused many US soldiers to become ill?

I think these are two different issues. While DU weapons are "nuclear" they are not nuclear in the way of "nuclear weapons". DU weapons aren't just killing American enlisted men either or even mostly. Childhood cancers in Iraq increased after the first Gulf war and now in places like Fallujah the rate of birth defects and cancers have escalated alarmingly. This is also true in Afghanistan where DU weapons have also been used.

The pursuit of mininukes are what is being refered to - the idea that you can create nuclear weapons that can be dialed down to maybe just a few tens of tons of TNT yields would mean that you could blow up really big areas with them but not be city killers - i.e. to make a nuclear weapons small enough that it could be "usable".

 

[Robert]

The sad thing about it is, we all (well, most of us) knew Obama was 'fake,' to one degree or another.
We all knew he was bought and paid for.

But the disappointing thing for me has been the magnitude of his phoniness.

And the weird paradox of people who normally vote Republican claiming that this president, who is demonstrably almost as far to the right as GW Bush, is some sort of liberal/socialist/communist/etc, is simultaneously hilarious and tragic.

Change we can believe in?
Guantanemo - still open;
Iraq - still occupied;
Afghanistan - still occupied;
Military-Industrial-Complex - stronger than ever;
etc, etc.

Fake is a good description.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

IIRC this was already a point of discussion in the first Iraq war, where marginalised uranium was used for bullets and caused many US soldiers to become ill?

Here is a recent story on the effects of depleted uranium on the population of Fallujah.

Leukemia is up 3800%
Childhood cancers up 1200%
Breast cancer up 1000%

 

[Glaucus]

Change we can believe in?
Guantanemo - still open;
Iraq - still occupied;
Afghanistan - still occupied;
Military-Industrial-Complex - stronger than ever;
etc, etc.

Honestly, I didn't think any of those would change. All of those are problems without easy solutions. All I expected from Obama was not to repeat the mistakes that Bush made that lead to these problems. So no more invasions and wars is what I had expected, although there's still the issue of Iran and I'm still not sure how that's likely to play out or even how I'd like it to play out. At any rate I find that conservatives tend to favor quick decisions even if they are not the best decision where as liberals are more likely to take their time weighing options even if at times they take too long. Obama seems to be taking his time with things but I don't blame him as there really aren't any good options available.

I might also add that I'd suspect that most Americans are concerned more with domestic policy then with foreign policy. The medical system overhaul is definitely a change as are the recently signed into law regulations on the financial sector. He also lifted the ban on gays in the military and opened up funding for stem cell research. Those are four big things Bush would never have even considered enacting.

 

[cecilia]

Change we can believe in?
Guantanemo - still open;
Iraq - still occupied;
Afghanistan - still occupied;
Military-Industrial-Complex - stronger than ever;
etc, etc.

Honestly, I didn't think any of those would change. All of those are problems without easy solutions. All I expected from Obama was not to repeat the mistakes that Bush made that lead to these problems. So no more invasions and wars is what I had expected, although there's still the issue of Iran and I'm still not sure how that's likely to play out or even how I'd like it to play out. At any rate I find that conservatives tend to favor quick decisions even if they are not the best decision where as liberals are more likely to take their time weighing options even if at times they take too long. Obama seems to be taking his time with things but I don't blame him as there really aren't any good options available.

I might also add that I'd suspect that most Americans are concerned more with domestic policy then with foreign policy. The medical system overhaul is definitely a change as are the recently signed into law regulations on the financial sector. He also lifted the ban on gays in the military and opened up funding for stem cell research. Those are four big things Bush would never have even considered enacting.

you summed up how I basically feel about this.

I was not expecting miracles because that doesn't exist. The stem cell research thing is a big deal for me so i got satisfaction early

and the pressures to keep in the wars must be HUGE. Sure, if it was me, i'd put my socks in a bag and just leave, but that's me
:mrgreen:

my other main satisfaction is that I am not ashamed to admit I'm American now.
The fact that cheney is still "alive" continues to makes my skin crawl - but since i"m not a criminal like him I'm not killing anyone just to make myself feel better.

 

[Robert]

Change we can believe in?
Guantanemo - still open;
Iraq - still occupied;
Afghanistan - still occupied;
Military-Industrial-Complex - stronger than ever;
etc, etc.

Honestly, I didn't think any of those would change.

I know I may be gullible but when he said, for example, he was closing Gitmo, I believed him.

Call it being economical with the truth, call it phony or just call it a lie - either way the word 'fake,' seems perfectly appropriate to me.

 

[Glaucus]

I know I may be gullible but when he said, for example, he was closing Gitmo, I believed him.

Call it being economical with the truth, call it phony or just call it a lie - either way the word 'fake,' seems perfectly appropriate to me.

Not sure he lied, he did sign an executive order to close the base, but it seems they ran into issues. I have a feeling gitmo will either be closed or there will be some effort to processes those detained before the next election. Overall it's still an improvement from Bush even if it is only a baby step.

 

[Robert]

I know I may be gullible but when he said, for example, he was closing Gitmo, I believed him.

Call it being economical with the truth, call it phony or just call it a lie - either way the word 'fake,' seems perfectly appropriate to me.

Not sure he lied,

Not sure?

Guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now.

BARACK OBAMA: January , 2009

You may not call that a lie, (as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty much the definition of a lie)
but you surely can agree that the statement is, without a doubt fake.

he did sign an executive order to close the base, but it seems they ran into issues.

Yeah, those 'issues' sure are a problem.
Bush had 'issues' too.

I have a feeling gitmo will either be closed or there will be some effort to processes those detained before the next election.

'Process'? Yeah, that's a good one. It should have been closed immediately. There is no valid excuse for maintaining it.

Overall it's still an improvement from Bush even if it is only a baby step.

I agree completely but just because something isn't quite as horrific as the last thing, doesn't make it acceptable.

If a killer breaks into a family home, takes the whole family hostage and tells the father of the house that he will have to witness his wife and three kids be executed, then has a change of heart and decides to let the youngest child live, it's an improvement but it's still horrendous.

Obama is an improvement but he's still a lying, murdering bastard.

And the more I think about it, the more I agree with the premise that he's fake.

 

[Glaucus]

Not sure?

Guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now.

If Obama knew that Guantanamo would not be closed no later than one year from when he said that, then yes he lied. But you're only assuming that he did. There is however an alternate theory: He was mistaken and that he didn't have a full understand of the issue he was talking about. Which means there are two explanations; he 1) lied or 2) he was incompetent. So far I see no evidence to prove either theory but you can go ahead and believe what ever you like as that is your right.

 

[Robert]

Not sure?

Guantanamo will be closed no later than one year from now.

If Obama knew that Guantanamo would not be closed no later than one year from when he said that, then yes he lied. But you're only assuming that he did. There is however an alternate theory: He was mistaken and that he didn't have a full understand of the issue he was talking about. Which means there are two explanations; he 1) lied or 2) he was incompetent. So far I see no evidence to prove either theory

As I already said, it doesn't really matter whether you call it a lie or not. He made a promise he didn't keep.
He misled, either by design or incompetence. Neither of those explanations fill me with optimism.

but you can go ahead and believe what ever you like as that is your right.

My right? Maybe it is but I don't think belief is something that can be dictated by rights. Even if I didn't have the right to believe something, I've a feeling I'd believe it anyway, wouldn't you? ;-)

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

BBC reports on radiation damage to children in Fallujah.