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Police taking blood tests at checkpoints
- Thread starter redrumloa
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i'm not sure how practical this is - after all as a citizen I want such a test to be 100 % accurate.
I HATE people who drink and drive. I think they are murderers. they just don't give a shit about anyone. selfish cunts
but i want them arrested with REAL evidence, not just bullshit
I HATE people who drink and drive. I think they are murderers. they just don't give a shit about anyone. selfish cunts
but i want them arrested with REAL evidence, not just bullshit
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In Minnesota we have an implied consent law. In order to have a Driver's License you must agree to a breath, blood, or urine alcohol test should probable cause be suspected. You have the right to refuse one type of test but then you must submit to a 2nd type of test. For example, you can say no to having blood drawn and the police must then offer you a urine or breath test. If you refuse all tests your license is automatically revoked. The refusal of a test is a different crime than the actual drunk driving.
Florida might do good to have something similar phased in. There would be no need for a Judge, that can't be cheap. Also why only blood? Are urine and breath tests inadmissible in Florida court?
And checkpoints?! Checkpoints, like speed and red light cameras, are against the Minnesota Constitution.
Florida might do good to have something similar phased in. There would be no need for a Judge, that can't be cheap. Also why only blood? Are urine and breath tests inadmissible in Florida court?
And checkpoints?! Checkpoints, like speed and red light cameras, are against the Minnesota Constitution.
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Wayne said:
Exactly.
I have a hearing impaired friend. If you ever met a deaf person or nearly deaf person, you know their speech is a little off. I've been with my friend who was stone cold sober at the time and he was given a roadside sobriety test. A few a few minutes of making him touch his nose, walk a line etc I yelled out the window "Umm, you know he is almost completely deaf, don't you?". They obviously didn't know or care, despite 2 large hearing aids. If I did not point this out, breathalyzer next? What if he could not understand them and declines? Would they hand cuff him, detain him and take blood samples? My guess is yes. Even worse, this is that slippery slope. This is so ripe for abuse, you know it will be abused.
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Lee and I were talking yesterday. I forget the exact topic, but it was something to do with retirement. As much as I love this country, or at least what it was when I was growing up, I cannot imagine being in the quickly devolving states of America beyond another 20 years. I just can't.redrumloa said:
We're now long-past the slippery slope in so many areas and already into free fall. Someone suggested that within 20 years Americans will be a minority in America. I not only tend to agree, but I simply don't feel like I want to live in North Mexico/Cuba as I get older. I know some of you (Jim) get twisted about illegal mexicans and the whole speaking {bleep} English thing, but hey. If you're ok with being a second-class citizen in your own country in 20 years, that's on you. Me? I'll likely be "waiting tables in Ireland" (or whatever -- whereever -- makes me happy).
Wayne
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that's why I want a process that really IS fair to everyone and isn't just some lame band-aid that just makes the situation worse.Wayne said:
I'm not interested in paying the police to be bullies. But i DO want them to stop drunks.
some years ago a friend was killed by some loser who was stopped by the police several times that day. I don't have the details but you really have to ask yourself why he was let go to kill someone?
something is wrong
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Checkpoints and these actions are for lazy officers. Officers should be observing and acting upon questionable behavior. Weaving in the lane, for example, might be a good indication people are drunk.
Wayne it's not that Americans will be a minority. It's the white majority will become the largest minority within America. So be a bit careful there when people describe the fear of a country where whites aren't the clear majority as there can be some serious racial underpinnings of their fear.
One thing I find is people consider what America might be like but not what other Countries might be like. Latin America has a population that's aging faster than the US. There's some indication in the next decade Mexico will need a large influx of workers. It may be that the illegals here now will find more profitable work at home.
Wayne it's not that Americans will be a minority. It's the white majority will become the largest minority within America. So be a bit careful there when people describe the fear of a country where whites aren't the clear majority as there can be some serious racial underpinnings of their fear.
One thing I find is people consider what America might be like but not what other Countries might be like. Latin America has a population that's aging faster than the US. There's some indication in the next decade Mexico will need a large influx of workers. It may be that the illegals here now will find more profitable work at home.
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faethor said:
I understand what you're saying, but that wasn't the study I saw. (After the conversation Lee and I had, I got curious, got on the Web -- like ya do -- and looked around.) The particular article/study I did find explicitly said "Americans", not "white folk". Whether "white folk" was their keystone for the argument, I have no idea. Looking for it now but honestly don't remember which news site I found it on.
For the record, I don't know what it's like where you are, but here in certain parts of Alabama (like Guntersville), we're absolutely overrun with illegal Mexicans. It's not like they're even trying to hide from public view either, and the "illegal" part is absolutely unmistakable.
Also, for the record, I don't have anything against Mexican citizens as a people, but when they illegally infiltrate this country AND not only refuse to learn to speak English, but hold out their hand for welfare, free education, medical, and other perks without bothering to pay taxes, that bleeping bothers the bleep out of me.
As an American citizen, I canonically refuse to have to learn to speak Spanish just to get by in America, and that seems to be what it's coming to. Again, at least around here. Minneapolis may be different.
If -- for that opinion -- anyone chooses to see me as some backwards heathen racist, then that's entirely on them. Every single person on this planet has some personal limit to what they will tolerate from other people, whether it's because they're black, white, Muslim, Jewish, gay, straight, homeless, rich, or whatever. Illegal Mexicans who refuse to either pay taxes or even speak the bleeping language is my own personal pet peeve.
Not sure how I got here from police roadblocks and mandatory blood seizure, so I apologize for that to all who're scratching their head going "WTF is Wayne on about now?"
Wayne
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when my family came here my grandfather was already multilingual - but he was incredibly intelligent.
but the family took becoming American VERY seriously. Back in those days you had to study and take a test.
And while I heard various languages at home, outside it was expected that I would learn and speak English.
the idea that people now coming to America just don't want to learn English and take being American seriously is just insulting to those of us who made the effort
but the family took becoming American VERY seriously. Back in those days you had to study and take a test.
And while I heard various languages at home, outside it was expected that I would learn and speak English.
the idea that people now coming to America just don't want to learn English and take being American seriously is just insulting to those of us who made the effort
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@Wayne,
Don't forget there are many "Americans" North and South America are fairly well populated. Mexico is also in America and they are Americans. If you're looking at US Citizens the current number is 310million. In the last decade the US population grew by 52Million. The highest illegal immigrant estimation is around 20Million. The illegal population would have to seriously grow within the US in the next two decades.
Not sure what illegals have done in 2009 and 2010. When the recession hit in 2008 the counts showed that a net change down of 1/2 million. Illegals need jobs too. The thought is the downturn in illegals was just that, they went elsewhere to find jobs.
As for your questions about Minnesota our illegal Mexican population is fairly low. They are often in the south of the state used where they farm and meat pack. Though not illegal we have our own immigrants. 1 out of every 3 Somali's in the world live in Minnesota. They too are blamed as not learning english, not paying taxes, and I hear all the time about how they shouldn't be citizens. However, this isn't unusal. Take a look at US history and you'll see the same sort of discrimination against large influxes from other populations. In the early 80s the same things were said about the large influx of Hmong into Minnesota. (MN is 2nd in Hmong population in the US behind California. We have just under 1 out of every 3 Hmongs living in the United States.) Studies have shown that hispanics learn english as fast as immigrants from any other Country to the US. Also that 21st century immigrants do this faster than earlier immigrants. (Sorry don't have them on hand.)
Can you explain more how illegals don't pay taxes? How can one live in our society and not pay taxes? If they live in a home they pay rent, or get kicked out, and that pays taxes. If they buy anything besides clothes and food there are taxes on other material items. Do they never eat out so never pay entertainment tax? Do they only hitchhike so never pay gas tax or public transit tax? And if they aren't paying Social Security or employment tax that's the fault of their employer. As they should be withholding this from their employees.
Which goes further to where this responsibility lies. I'd agree illegals own responsibility for their condition. Employers are another probem area. When employers give jobs to illegals, especially knowningly, they are encouraging illegals within our nation. Knowningly doing something which undermines how our society operates should be punishable. I want to see employers getting large fines and jail time for hiring illegals. If there weren't jobs the illegals would go home.
Going a bit into the census figures and how our society is changing.. About 77% of the US reported white or white w/ other race in 2000. This number is estimated to have dropped to 72%. All minorities are seeing gains, though hispanics have the largest % gains. Non-hispanic whites are the majority but only contribute to 35% of the growth. By 2050 blacks are expected to more than double, hispanics to nearly triple but asians are projected to grow 5 fold. In the same time whites are expected to drop to 53% of the population.
Now I go back to the 'non-Americans' taking over the country in 20 years. It's not non-Americans it's really non-white americans that are leading the increase in population. which is why I mentioned be careful as someo of the statements here on the changing population have their fear based in the expansive growth of the non-white population and the minor growth but shrinking % of society comprised by whites. Let's assume that hispanics are all illegals (not true) and expected to grow by their projected rates. You'll see all other races combined still outsrip the hispanic sector. It's unrealistic to expect in 20 years the country will be over run by illegals. Though it is realistic to expect a more diverse society by race US is in the cards.
Don't forget there are many "Americans" North and South America are fairly well populated. Mexico is also in America and they are Americans. If you're looking at US Citizens the current number is 310million. In the last decade the US population grew by 52Million. The highest illegal immigrant estimation is around 20Million. The illegal population would have to seriously grow within the US in the next two decades.
Not sure what illegals have done in 2009 and 2010. When the recession hit in 2008 the counts showed that a net change down of 1/2 million. Illegals need jobs too. The thought is the downturn in illegals was just that, they went elsewhere to find jobs.
As for your questions about Minnesota our illegal Mexican population is fairly low. They are often in the south of the state used where they farm and meat pack. Though not illegal we have our own immigrants. 1 out of every 3 Somali's in the world live in Minnesota. They too are blamed as not learning english, not paying taxes, and I hear all the time about how they shouldn't be citizens. However, this isn't unusal. Take a look at US history and you'll see the same sort of discrimination against large influxes from other populations. In the early 80s the same things were said about the large influx of Hmong into Minnesota. (MN is 2nd in Hmong population in the US behind California. We have just under 1 out of every 3 Hmongs living in the United States.) Studies have shown that hispanics learn english as fast as immigrants from any other Country to the US. Also that 21st century immigrants do this faster than earlier immigrants. (Sorry don't have them on hand.)
Can you explain more how illegals don't pay taxes? How can one live in our society and not pay taxes? If they live in a home they pay rent, or get kicked out, and that pays taxes. If they buy anything besides clothes and food there are taxes on other material items. Do they never eat out so never pay entertainment tax? Do they only hitchhike so never pay gas tax or public transit tax? And if they aren't paying Social Security or employment tax that's the fault of their employer. As they should be withholding this from their employees.
Which goes further to where this responsibility lies. I'd agree illegals own responsibility for their condition. Employers are another probem area. When employers give jobs to illegals, especially knowningly, they are encouraging illegals within our nation. Knowningly doing something which undermines how our society operates should be punishable. I want to see employers getting large fines and jail time for hiring illegals. If there weren't jobs the illegals would go home.
Going a bit into the census figures and how our society is changing.. About 77% of the US reported white or white w/ other race in 2000. This number is estimated to have dropped to 72%. All minorities are seeing gains, though hispanics have the largest % gains. Non-hispanic whites are the majority but only contribute to 35% of the growth. By 2050 blacks are expected to more than double, hispanics to nearly triple but asians are projected to grow 5 fold. In the same time whites are expected to drop to 53% of the population.
Now I go back to the 'non-Americans' taking over the country in 20 years. It's not non-Americans it's really non-white americans that are leading the increase in population. which is why I mentioned be careful as someo of the statements here on the changing population have their fear based in the expansive growth of the non-white population and the minor growth but shrinking % of society comprised by whites. Let's assume that hispanics are all illegals (not true) and expected to grow by their projected rates. You'll see all other races combined still outsrip the hispanic sector. It's unrealistic to expect in 20 years the country will be over run by illegals. Though it is realistic to expect a more diverse society by race US is in the cards.
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I think it does give some clarity to actions of people when downtimes arrive.Wayne said:
Searching for 'what am I missing here' I found... The government's number was about 12 Million in 2008. Current count is about 10Million. Highest counts were 20Million a couple of years ago. Around mid-06 Texas did a study of their population. Texas, a fairly conservative state, indicates their illegals contribute about $18Billion a year to their economy. More pay taxes than use tax monies. It's much closer than the non-illegal population, but not a loss. The US Gov around the same time, again a conservative time under Bush, indicated that illegals pay about $9Billion in Social Security. They don't expect this will ever get used. (Which in turn the government borrows from the Social Security fund to cover othe debts.)
Taking 10Million to 20Million, illegals are 3-6% of the population. No insignification, but not the only problem. There are many other problems besides illegals in our economy. We can deal with illegals -- shutdown businesses that use illegal labor. Economic theory talks about the law of supply and demand. If there's an over supply of illegal labor and no demand, because they can't get jobs, that supply must be used elsewhere. Like in their home Country. It seems we lost about 2Million illegals in the last 2 years. Why? IMO the reduction in jobs here means they had to go home to find work.
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You're right, and that's a problem all on it's own. Importing cheap labor that operates outside the system weakens the system and hurts everyone who operates legally within it. The only ones who really benefit are those getting rich of the cheap labor. The fact is the reason illegals exist in the US and in other counties like Greece (which is seeing this issue at perhaps a higher rate per capita), is because they are tolerated by those with the power to change it. There is money to be made and votes to be won and the cost to the nation and the citizens are not considered.faethor said: