Protesters arrested nationwide as Occupy Wall Street rallies rage on

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Police hauled away protesters in various cities early Sunday as Occupy Wall Street rallies raged on for the 30th day.

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[Robert]

There's a small group camped out in the centre of Glasgow - maybe 50 people or so. I just walked past them ten minutes ago. This is one of the placards:

 

[the_leander]

According to various police blogs there is a similar protest occurring at St Pauls.

And the usual suspects such as Jodie McIntyre and the Black Bloq are there as ever trying to turn what is currently a peaceful demonstration into a riot by actively goading the police into doing something other than standing around watching.

No doubt as time wears on the police will do something to feed their martyr complexes if they carry on.

 

[Robert]

And the usual suspects such as Jodie McIntyre and the Black Bloq are there as ever trying to turn what is currently a peaceful demonstration into a riot by actively goading the police into doing something other than standing around watching.

Goading? What, throwing missiles at them or something?

The one in Glasgow has a bunch of folk jamming on guitars and a half-drum-kit. Not bad either.
No police were there at all, which was nice.

No doubt as time wears on the police will do something to feed their martyr complexes if they carry on.

The police have a martyr complex?

 

[the_leander]

Goading? What, throwing missiles at them or something?

More getting up into the individual officers personal space screaming abuse this time around, although on previous occasions the likes of the black bloq have a thing about windows. Or ignoring polite requests to not block the entrance of the cathedral proper requiring that the police then have to physically move them to one side.

I tell you, reading the twitter feeds about it, you might actually have thought that what the uk police did was as harsh as what the Greek police were upto in their riots.

The one in Glasgow has a bunch of folk jamming on guitars and a half-drum-kit. Not bad either.
No police were there at all, which was nice.

Sounds like your protesters are a lot more sensible. Or at least don't have so many professional protesters (IE ones that go to every protest, regardless of what it's about, with the express intent of causing trouble).

The police have a martyr complex?

Nah, a serious case of confirmation bias perhaps, but no I meant the likes of McIntyre. It's not a proper protest for him unless he's manoeuvred himself into a position where he is in very real danger of getting trampled by his fellow protesters after he's stirred them into a frenzy and has to be lifted from his wheelchair to be placed into a safer position.

 

[Robert]

More getting up into the individual officers personal space screaming abuse this time around,

You would be immediately and unceremoniously arrested if you tried that up here. (And you'd probably "fall down the stairs," on the way to the station too.)
You'd probably be charged with breach of the peace, resisting arrest and a few, other, sundry charges they always seem to like to bolt-on.
In fact you will be arrested up here for far less.

Sounds like your protesters are a lot more sensible. Or at least don't have so many professional protesters (IE ones that go to every protest, regardless of what it's about, with the express intent of causing trouble).

Or maybe partly because the numbers are small, it's in the middle of a large square so there isn't anything directly on hand to smash up and there are no police there to fight with.
i.e. Not really a lot there for "professional protestor" mob to get their teeth into. If it grows to level where there is a police presence and shopfronts are nearby, I'm sure they'll come crawling out of the woodwork.

 

[the_leander]

You would be immediately and unceremoniously arrested if you tried that up here. (And you'd probably "fall down the stairs," on the way to the station too.)

That last part might have been true even as late as the early 90's, but these days the sheer volume of paperwork involved in explaining such mean there are realistic disincentives do anything other than safely place a prisoner into custody. At least down here.

You'd probably be charged with breach of the peace, resisting arrest and a few, other, sundry charges they always seem to like to bolt-on.

I don't know what it's like up there, but down here a breach of the peace on it's own would barely warrant a caution these days, even with all of the others attached the resulting fine wouldn't even do much damage to a dole cheque... Hell, it was actually stated down here a few weeks back that assaulting a police officer was acceptable.

In fact you will be arrested up here for far less.

I do wonder if the police down here were allowed to do the same if the numbers of professional protesters would dwindle overnight.

Or maybe partly because the numbers are small, it's in the middle of a large square so there isn't anything directly on hand to smash up and there are no police there to fight with.
i.e. Not really a lot there for "professional protestor" mob to get their teeth into. If it grows to level where there is a police presence and shopfronts are nearby, I'm sure they'll come crawling out of the woodwork.

Professional protester = White, middle class, unemployed (by choice), often university educated with a severe case of entitlement.

Either way, sounds like a lot of people up there had a good time whilst making a serious point, which by any measure you care to lob at it, can only be a good thing I think.

 

[Robert]

I don't know what it's like up there, but down here a breach of the peace on it's own would barely warrant a caution these days, even with all of the others attached the resulting fine wouldn't even do much damage to a dole cheque...

Scots law is different from the rest of the UK. It can vary from a caution to a "life" prison sentence.

According to wikipedia (I know, I know but I have no reason disbelieve this):

There are major differences between English law and Scots law with respect to dealing with breach of the peace; unlike England and Wales where criminal penalties apply to the behaviour leading to or liable to cause a breach of the peace, it is a specific criminal offence in Scotland which is prosecuted daily in the Sheriff Courts and due to its common law definition it can be applied to a number of scenarios. The maximum punishment if a case is remitted to the High Court is imprisonment for life (as of 2002 [8]).

Last month a football fan in Edinburgh was given eight months in gaol for breach of the peace:

A Hearts fan who was cleared of a hate attack on the Celtic manager, Neil Lennon, has been jailed for eight months and given a five-year football banning order after being convicted of breach of the peace.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/14/hearts-fan-neil-lennon

If you go about screaming in the face of police officers, I wouldn't be too confident of a caution.

Hell, it was actually stated down here a few weeks back that assaulting a police officer was acceptable.

Stated by whom and in what context?

Either way, sounds like a lot of people up there had a good time whilst making a serious point, which by any measure you care to lob at it, can only be a good thing I think.

It looked that way but I wasn't there long enough to gauge properly.

 

[the_leander]

Scots law is different from the rest of the UK. It can vary from a caution to a "life" prison sentence.

According to wikipedia (I know, I know but I have no reason disbelieve this):

Wow!

You'd be in and out of court in half an hour down here. Worst you could realistically expect would be a community sentence, more often it'd be suspended.

Last month a football fan in Edinburgh was given eight months in gaol for breach of the peace:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/sep/14/hearts-fan-neil-lennon

If you go about screaming in the face of police officers, I wouldn't be too confident of a caution.

Quite possibly why I hear very little of such from up norf

Stated by whom and in what context?

Lord Justice Leveson.

As it was, assault on a police officer is equal to common assault, which these days down here due to current sentencing guidelines wouldn't even warrant a response.

 

[redrumloa]

Professional protester = White, middle class, unemployed (by choice), often university educated with a severe case of entitlement.

Wow, I am impressed the_leander!

 

[the_leander]

Wow, I am impressed the_leander!

The people I speak of appear at least to be something unique to England. I haven't yet seen an analogue of this in the US, if for no other reason than here in the UK, with the exception of an extreme few highly publicised cases, short of manslaughter, you won't be put in prison for more than a year.

I can't honestly think of any other country in the world, or even other parts of the UK, that have such lax jail sentences. And I'm not just talking minor offences here, stabbing someone, so long as they survive will likely only result in being fined, even if you have a criminal record as long as your arm.

 

[metalman]

Professional protester = White, middle class, unemployed (by choice), often university educated with a severe case of entitlement.

The people I speak of appear at least to be something unique to England.

You described the same group protesting here.

 

[the_leander]

You described the same group protesting here.

So it's the same group of people who show up to all protests time and again is it?

Also, fairly certain that the group I'm describing don't include war vets and professionals as the US protesters do.

 

[Glaucus]

In Greece they have a group called the "koukoulofori". They look like this on the streets:

And like this when they're not:

They basically live to cause trouble, either at a football game or a political rally or for no reason at all. When they're not facing off riot police they tend to randomly smash cars or windows or spray paint all over the place. They have their own culture with songs and YouTube videos showcasing their damage. Personally, I wish the police would just shoot them dead as they provide no useful purpose and actually make it impossible to conduct a proper protest as they always descend into chaos. Everyone would be better off without them.

 

[the_leander]

Very much like our black bloq on all scores by the looks of it.

 

[redrumloa]

Very much like our black bloq on all scores by the looks of it.

I fully expect to see similar groups in the USA soon. Oh wait we somewhat already do, large groups of blacks attacking whites in 'flash mobs' that doesn't get reported in the mainstream media.

 

[faethor]

So it's the same group of people who show up to all protests time and again is it?

Also, fairly certain that the group I'm describing don't include war vets and professionals as the US protesters do.

And the 'professional' protesters are sometimes the government themselves. http://betterthisworld.com/
-- A film about how the FBI infiltrated the 2008 protests at the Republican convention look like a group of 'radicals'

The US Government has a history of infiltration and spying on protestors. They've done so to seemingly 'learn more'. 'Freedom of Speech' as long as the cops are part of it.

 

[the_leander]

I fully expect to see similar groups in the USA soon. Oh wait we somewhat already do, large groups of blacks attacking whites in 'flash mobs' that doesn't get reported in the mainstream media.

Gonna need more facepalm, I can see it coming...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bloc

Hmm, looks like more people use a c in Bloc than q... Live and learn..

 

[redrumloa]

Gonna need more facepalm, I can see it coming...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Bloc

Hmm, looks like more people use a c in Bloc than q... Live and learn..

I knew Black Bloc did not mean dark skinned, very poor assumption on your part. Violent mob = violent mob.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

In Greece they have a group called the "koukoulofori".

I heard that quite a few of the occupy protesters were busily trying to chase them off. The protesters are going to have to start their own police force to arrest trouble makers. Once you have your own police you have taken a step towards being a government.