Santorum challenges policy on prenatal testing

[News Feed]

The government shouldn't make health care providers fully cover prenatal tests like amniocentesis, which can determine the possibility of Down syndrome or other fetal problems, Republican presidential hopeful Rick Santorum said Sunday.

Continue reading...

 

[redrumloa]

Flame on!!!

 

[the_leander]

Just... Wow.

Literally, I got nothing.

 

[redrumloa]

Just... Wow.

Literally, I got nothing.

I have to say I agree with Santorum here completely, even though it is a political powder kep. Go ahead, rip into me.


On Sunday, Santorum mentioned his own experience with this 3-year-old daughter Isabella, who has Trisomy 18, a chromosome disorder that often results in stillbirths or early childhood death. He said prenatal testing showed the problem, and doctors recommend abortion in virtually all cases.

Such a recommendation is common when any problem is detected through amniocentesis, said Santorum, who added that in such cases "we know that 90% of Down syndrome children are aborted."

Some studies since the late 1990s do suggest a high percentage of women terminate their pregnancies after receiving a Down syndrome diagnosis, with one British study putting the figure as high as 92 percent.


Eugenics is a terrible thing.

 

[the_leander]

I have to say I agree with Santorum here completely, even though it is a political powder kep. Go ahead, rip into me.

Because still births and a becoming a lifetime carer are infinitely preferable to the alternative, right?

Eugenics is a terrible thing.

So is having to sit down with a mother and telling her that the baby she wanted died whilst still inside of her and that she will need to have it removed, or that her child is likely going to require life long care at massive expense.

Like all medicine, it's a case of weighing up the pros and cons. Hardly Eugenics.

And no, I won't rip into you, what possible good would it do, I think you're wrong on this and I think (Santorums) using emotional arguments is a sign of not having a decent defence for a position.

But there you go.

Amazing what modern medication can do.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

On Sunday, Santorum mentioned his own experience with this 3-year-old daughter Isabella, who has Trisomy 18, a chromosome disorder that often results in stillbirths or early childhood death.

Santorum can afford such a daughter. Other families cannot. Forcing someone to have a child who will not or "should" not reproduce is likely robbing that family of having a child or children who is/are not disabled and who will be able to live much happier and more productive lives - simply because one special needs child is such a drain on a families resources. Is Rick Santorum advocating that instead of providing prenatal testing, health care providers should provide all the care needed to raise a child suffering from any condition that would have been discoverable by prenatal testing?

 

[redrumloa]

Because still births and a becoming a lifetime carer are infinitely preferable to the alternative, right?

Did you missed the part where Santorum's kid is 3 years old, and alive?

So is having to sit down with a mother and telling her that the baby she wanted died whilst still inside of her and that she will need to have it removed, or that her child is likely going to require life long care at massive expense.

The point is not that the doctor should be blocked from this conversation. The point is the government should not be mandating the procedure in federal law.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

The point is the government should not be mandating the procedure in federal law.

And they don't. They simply mandate that it should be covered for people that want to use it. Does the government force you to drive on every road it builds?

 

[redrumloa]

Santorum can afford such a daughter. Other families cannot. Forcing someone to have a child who will not or "should" not reproduce is likely robbing that family of having a child or children who is/are not disabled and who will be able to live much happier and more productive lives - simply because one special needs child is such a drain on a families resources. Is Rick Santorum advocating that instead of providing prenatal testing, health care providers should provide all the care needed to raise a child suffering from any condition that would have been discoverable by prenatal testing?

Children born with disabilities get Social Security checks every month. I know two perfectly capable 20-somethings who have been labeled mentally handicapped and receive SSI checks every month for the rest of their lives. There is no reason these guys can't work.

 

[redrumloa]

And they don't. They simply mandate that it should be covered for people that want to use it. Does the government force you to drive on every road it builds?

They mandate the insurer must cover it. The Federal Government should not be mandating anything. And yes, the gov does mandate that I drive on their roads. How far do you think I would get driving on the sidewalks?

The federal government does not have the Constitutional authority. Let the states try their own experiments and when their socialist experiment fails (like California), don't bail them out.

 

[ilwrath]

The point is not that the doctor should be blocked from this conversation. The point is the government should not be mandating the procedure in federal law.

:/ Where is the government mandating the procedure?

But, if someone is paying for a "health insurance" policy... shouldn't someone... ya know... make sure that the insurance provider actually delivers some service to the customers? (Especially, now that we're mandated to buy health insurance. )

 

[the_leander]

Did you missed the part where Santorum's kid is 3 years old, and alive?

Did you miss the part where it was pointed out that the vast majority of people can't afford to look after a disabled child? His child is alive, he can afford the myriad of extra costs associated with raising someone with downs (extreme likelihood of heart defects for starters).

For most people, the burden of caring for such a child is way, waaay out of their capabilities, even if they have the desire and will to try. The alternative is that many more disabled kids get dumped into care facilities.

The point is not that the doctor should be blocked from this conversation. The point is the government should not be mandating the procedure in federal law.

They aren't, from what I can see, they're mandating the testing. And yes, the government does have a legitimate interest in this. Especially since it will likely end up having to help carry the families involved.

The government also has the right to enforce mandates for any number of things, so that the greater population have a better standard of living verses the libertarian wet dream.

 

[the_leander]

They mandate the insurer must cover it. The Federal Government should not be mandating anything. And yes, the gov does mandate that I drive on their roads. How far do you think I would get driving on the sidewalks?

Is off-roading illegal in the US? How about private roads?

The federal government does not have the Constitutional authority. Let the states try their own experiments and when their socialist experiment fails (like California), don't bail them out.

Socialism, in California? Hahahahaha.

Go ask Cecilia about the disparities she encountered there.

(Spoiler: A tiny minority have truly monumental amounts of money, whilst the rest basically act as a support and service structure for them).

Go visit a Scandinavian country if you want to know what socialism looks like when done well.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

And yes, the gov does mandate that I drive on their roads.

Of course they don't. There is no mandate from the government that you drive or that you own a motor vehicle and nor are you required to go out west and drive the five just because the government built it. Of course, you CAN use it, if you are in the area, and it's going in the right direction but you don't HAVE to.

You are mandated NOT to drive on the sidewalk but you are there is no mandate that you drive on all roads that are built.

 

[redrumloa]

They aren't, from what I can see, they're mandating the testing. And yes, the government does have a legitimate interest in this.

Have you been pro-eugenics your whole life?

Especially since it will likely end up having to help carry the families involved.

Funny, that is been the conservatives' point all along.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Funny, that is been the conservatives' point all along.

The conservatives' point is that the government shouldn't help carry disabled children, nor should families have any way of finding out if their child will be disabled and chose not to have that child. The conservative philosophy is that if God gives you a disabled child then it's your punishment for something you did and if you can't raise it then you should break yourself trying anyway and when you fail then the child should suffer and die instead of getting any help.

The Jesus of the conservatives said "Every man for himself". Santorum can afford multiple disabled children. Most people find it a true struggle, even an impossible one.

You want people to be forced to have disabled children but you don't want the responsibility of what you want to force other people to do. Conservatives would have a better case if they said that abortion was illegal and we will help you look after anything we made you have that you are incapable of looking after yourself.

 

[the_leander]

Have you been pro-eugenics your whole life?

I thought it was all about personal responsibility? Part of being responsible is in getting access to the information. The government has a duty not only of care but a requirement to provide that information.

Funny, that is been the conservatives' point all along.

Really, because it seems to me that that particular point only crops up when it suits "conservatives".

 

[cecilia]

if you do a search for prenatal care you will find lots of links which will state that "prenatal care lowers the risk of infant mortality, low birth weights, and disabilities in children".

it's obvious that santorum hates women and children

 

[faethor]

The federal government does not have the Constitutional authority. Let the states try their own experiments and when their socialist experiment fails (like California), don't bail them out.

It is that Republicans have their idea of America flipped the wrong way. We see Republicans arguing that any legislating businesses is the wrong thing to do. Likewise we see Republicans arguing that the womb must be tightly controlled and regulated. And certainly the bedroom too. Hint - it's not the womb ruining America it's the economy.

@Thread,
A fairly good read - Why the Patriarchs hate birth control and why the fight has just begun. http://www.alternet.org/visions/154144/?page=entire

 

[Dammy]

Flame on!!!

I'm sure the Progressives are drooling over it, but I agree with Rick. There is no reason why Big Brother should be telling two private groups what has to be in their private contract. Why should I be forced to pay for this when I will never have to use it? Can a Progressive please answer why I must pay for inclusion in any health care policy that I may purchase?