Sen. Paul Reaches Victory Through Filibuster :dancing banana:

[redrumloa]

White House issues answer after Senator’s 13-hour speech

Mar 7, 2013
Today, following a historic 13-hour filibuster on the Senate floor that ended early this morning, Sen. Rand Paul received correspondence from the White House regarding the legality and constitutionality of the U.S. government using lethal force, including drone strikes, on Americans and in U.S. territory. Sen. Paul's repeated correspondence to President Obama's nominee to be CIA director, John Brennan, was finally answered today, in part, with the following response from Attorney General Eric Holder: "'Does the President have the authority to use a weaponized drone to kill an American not engaged in combat on American soil?' The answer to that question is no."

"This is a major victory for American civil liberties and ensures the protection of our basic Constitutional rights. We have Separation of Powers to protect our rights. That's what government was organized to do and that's what the Constitution was put in place to do," Sen. Paul said. "I would like to congratulate my fellow colleagues in both the House and Senate and thank them for joining me in protecting the rights of due process."

Emphasis is mine. Hell yeah! Finally an answer! Better than nothing! You go Rand Paul!!

 

[Glaucus]

Was there ever a movement to OK drone strikes on non-combative US citizens on US soil? I doubt it. And why would you need to when the police can just as easily shoot you?

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Was there ever a movement to OK drone strikes on non-combative US citizens on US soil? I doubt it. And why would you need to when the police can just as easily shoot you?

There was a concerted effort to remain ambiguous and not answer the question. The answer from Holder seems to retain some of that ambiguity. What does "not involved in combat" mean and who decides. Was Dorner engaged in "combat? Could he have been found to be? This is not a "we don't drone you" statement - I doubt that they would ever make a statement that would tie their hands or be anything that could be taken to a court to test before the fact.

Still, that's quite an fine effort from Rand. I don't know if he can claim victory but he can claim something - the moral high ground for a start. Props to him. 13 hours is a long time to filibuster.

 

[Glaucus]

So does that mean they can still bomb Americans involved in combat? I see no reason why not, they've done it before.

 

[faethor]

There's nothing different here. It was nothing less than Rand Paul political posturing. The US President has had the ability to use the military within the USA for extraordinary circumstances. The rule is no different for drones. The only reason to 'not get this' was either willful ignorance of the law (passed in the late 1800s) or posturing.

Paul was all show here. He stood up and complained. IF there was a true problem Paul's a Senator who can write and propose a solution. He did none of that. Preening, puffery and posturing with nothing gained. The answer was the same as before. Paul just wanted it re-worded.

Oh and in case you're wondering who uses this stuff... Well Republican Lincoln turned weapons on US Citizens. Had he the drone he could have taken out General Lee. Republican George HW Bush turned weapons on US Citizens to qwell the riots.

 

[faethor]

So does that mean they can still bomb Americans involved in combat? I see no reason why not, they've done it before.

YES -- See the Posse Commitatus Act of 1878.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Oh and in case you're wondering who uses this stuff... Well Republican Lincoln turned weapons on US Citizens. Had he the drone he could have taken out General Lee. Republican George HW Bush turned weapons on US Citizens to qwell the riots.

Which was probably an abuse of his power. But if your point is that the rot set in early, fair enough.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

So does that mean they can still bomb Americans involved in combat? I see no reason why not, they've done it before.

But what is combat? Already many pacifist and environmental and bank protest groups have been labeled "soft terrorism". It's only a matter of massaging the goal posts for a while and finding a likely victim for a test case. Does a food riot count as combat? Maybe it will. We will have to see. (A bunch of peasants with torches and pitchforks knocking at the palace gates will certainly be seen as combat)

 

[redrumloa]

But what is combat? Already many pacifist and environmental and bank protest groups have been labeled "soft terrorism". It's only a matter of massaging the goal posts for a while and finding a likely victim for a test case. Does a food riot count as combat? Maybe it will. We will have to see. (A bunch of peasants with torches and pitchforks knocking at the palace gates will certainly be seen as combat)

Right, anyone Obama labels an "enemy combatant" can still be taken out with a hellfire missile. Unless of course he prefers making you disappear to Guantanamo to be water tortured and never be seen again. King Obama can do anything he wishes now.

Rand Paul is on the right track and getting attention to the issue, but a lot more needs to be done.

 

[faethor]

Red, Obama has exactly the same power as amy Prez has. Paul did nothing whatsoever to change this.

 

[redrumloa]

Red, Obama has exactly the same power as amy Prez has.

Obviously you have missed a lot. Go back and read a few threads I posted over the last ~4 years.

Paul did nothing whatsoever to change this.

At least he got an answer from Eric Holder. Prior to the filibuster no one could even get that.

 

[redrumloa]

@faethor
These links may be more your speed.
Jon Stewart Stands with Rand Paul

One might expect Comedy Central star Jon Stewart to skewer Sen. Rand Paul for the politician's filibuster questioning the administration's drone policy.
After all, Rand was calling into question President Barack Obama's Peace Prize bona fides by delaying the confirmation of John Brennan as CIA Director.
Instead, The Daily Show host decided to do what plenty of Americans happily did Wednesday--stand with Rand.
"He's using the filibuster in the way it's supposed to be used," Stewart cracked as the audience tittered nervously.
Holy Howard Roark's Ghost, indeed.

Liberal Actor on GOP-Led Filibuster Over Drones: ‘For God’s Sake, Where Are Democrats?’

Actor John Cusack describes himself as a progressive, but he has been a critic of the federal government’s drone program regardless of who has been is in office. Frankly, he has also be a pretty harsh critic of President Barack Obama as well.
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) and other GOP senators on Wednesday conducted an old-school filibuster on the Senate floor to block John Brennan’s nomination and bring attention to the potential for drone strikes on U.S. soil. As the hours went by, Cusack was curious to know: “where are Democrats?”

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Right, anyone Obama labels an "enemy combatant" can still be taken out with a hellfire missile.

And the next guy isn't going to roll that back. It'll just ratchet up another notch. When the US goes Egyptian don't expect the US elites to fold as easily. The ducks are being lined up. We are supposed to not worry though until they want to use the ducks and then it's too late. Even when the people know there's a ditch waiting at the end of the march no-one wants to be the one to start trouble with the guards or make a break for it. Human nature and the psychos depend on it.

 

[robert l. bentham]

no-one wants to be the one to start trouble with the guards or make a break for it.

dont be so sure.... i have proven myself to be, repeatedly, a f%&king asshole.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

dont be so sure.... i have proven myself to be, repeatedly, a f%&king asshole.

Good. Need a few more of those - but most regular people are afraid of those who would stand up, they fear it would bring worse on their own heads. It's sad but exemplified by an apocryphal story that I like to tell from time to time. I'd say "stop me if you've heard it", but it'll be too late for that after I post.

So Genghis Khan was slaughtering his way across Asia when he came upon a small band of peasants and decides to take the opportunity to exercise his sword arm. He has all the peasants kneel in a line and starts going down the row chopping heads off one by one. One of the peasants says to one next to him - "we should defend ourselves, we must fight back" to which his neighbour responds - "shhhh. We do not want to make him angry".

 

[robert l. bentham]

dear president obama;
eric holder, joeseph biden, cia,fbi,kbi,tsa,dohs.. us military et al.... (i feel it would be wrong not to tell all of them having thought about it)
my name is robert l bentham.... i was an nco in the army... i am a combat veteran who is unsatisfied by your current drone policy... if your piece of shit legal counsel advises you that you have, under any authority,the lawful right to perpetrate drone strikes upon the american people then you need to start here, at my house.... because i will not stand for this... please have your combat finance officers available as i live within 1500 ft of a schoolhouse.... prolly not more than 50 or 60 children will be harmed in you taking me out... clear it with eric... collateral damage payouts need not exceed 250 per right?... Waitin on the Hellfire(tm) u f^&cking piece of shit

38°51′13″N 99°8′51″W / 38.85361°N 99.1475°W / 38.85361; -99.1475



if it comes down to it... ill take a bullet... the enemy wears whatever face he has at that moment... respect my liberty or expect your death!!!

 

[robert l. bentham]

ive just been informed thats my neighbors house... fawkin yikes! (that place will prolly burn on its own ) adjust for fire two degrees ... low ... center...

 

[robert l. bentham]

 

[robert l. bentham]

i stand with paul... (see what i did there red?)

 

[robert l. bentham]

err wait... u always call me a liberal...