Seriously cheesed off at my VW Golf now.

[redrumloa]

My love of the VW Golf TDI is now souring. In the past month I have had my shifter break ($820) and clutch go out ($1300 non-dealer, dealer was higher). The clutch was due to be changed, but goodness that is a high cost to change a clutch! Unfortunately it just keeps getting worse. I am due for timing belt (950 non-dealer, dealer is higher), but that is on hold because my turbo just went out! I will get the cost from the independent shop tomorrow, but all indications are it will be north of $1,300.

So, in the last ~21 days my Golf has cost me $2,120 and is about to cost me another $1,300+. That does not include the battery or tires I also just bought nor does it include the $80 oil change. So I am out $3,420 in less than a month and I need to spend another $950.

Yes all cars need repairs, but this is getting ridiculous. This is also the 2nd turbo failure. The first failure came in 2006 when the car was just over 1 year old and was still under warranty. The water pump failed in early 2008 and was (barely) covered under warranty. I am souring real quick on the TDI concept. When I replace the turbo, how long will this one last me?

I miss the days of cars having timing CHAINS instead of timing belts. WTH use a rubber belt instead of a chain??? Why does the labor to change a clutch on a modern car have to be so insane? This is all just crazy. Before anyone suggests getting an american gas hog, we have one and it has its own problems. We have a 2000 Expedition with a slew of needed repairs. The most hair-pulling is a failure of the "PATS" anti-theft system. What a complete POS that abortion is.

/rant mode off

 

[Glaucus]

This is why the resale value of VWs and Audi's are so low. I was happy to make that impression when my sis when she was car shopping and skipped the Audi in favor of the Infiniti.

But ya, all cars have problems. If it makes you feel better, I had my Honda's engine rebuilt July 2009. Since then I've had a couple of oil seals leaking (last one was the thingy you screw the oil filter into, the oil cooler - very hard to reach, most of the cost was just in labor) and now one of my fuel injectors is leaking gas all over the engine. I'm fixing the injector myself as it's pretty simple to reach, but it's still frustrating.

VW's are finicky. Those Germans have some strange design ideas. I've heard bad things about their turbo engines and their transmissions have some unique properties that makes working on them tricky. Where was yours built?

 

[redrumloa]

Where was yours built?

Mexico.

 

[Wayne]

Jim,

Sorry to hear about all your troubles, but honestly, $1300 for a clutch replacement, while sounding insane, is about "in the ballpark" with my $1150 clutch replacement the first day I bought my current truck.

Can't speak for turbos, or shifters breaking, etc, but frankly, I'm going to try and avoid Manual shifts in the future.

Wayne

 

[faethor]

Always sucks to have car problems. And yes timing belts do suck. I need one on my Saab 92x. When they're in there might as well do the other stuff too. Which doubles the total price with all the extra parts but adds about $100 to the labor.

 

[Wayne]

Yes all cars need repairs, but this is getting ridiculous. This is also the 2nd turbo failure. The first failure came in 2006 when the car was just over 1 year old and was still under warranty. The water pump failed in early 2008 and was (barely) covered under warranty. I am souring real quick on the TDI concept. When I replace the turbo, how long will this one last me?

The rule of thumb is that if your car repairs cost 1/3 the value of the vehicle (combined over time, or at one whack) it's time to maybe find a new one. Let us admit though Jim that of most people here, you can put some serious hurtin' on a Turbo just going to the grocery store (not that they aren't limited-lifespan items).

The one thing I can suggest to you is that a Turbo can be self-replaced, saving at least the labor. Usually, they're just one chip, 2-4 bolts, and a bit of greasework to plug and play. Like replacing a starter or alternator, it's external, meaning buy parts, plug, play.

I miss the days of cars having timing CHAINS instead of timing belts. WTH use a rubber belt instead of a chain???

Agreed, but in order;

1) Noise of a chain versus belt
2) Easier to spin a belt versus chain (more power)
3) Chains wear out too.

Why does the labor to change a clutch on a modern car have to be so insane?

Honestly, the fact that most shops are now $150/hr for labor has something to do with it, but the design, layout, and generally the working size of most modern cars (as opposed to dropping the trans on a 1973 Buick) makes everything more complicated. Mostly though, it's the $150/hr.

I do wish you the best, but I've come to the conclusion that if I can get away with a $5,000 car every 3 years, that's about the same thing as losing shitloads of money on a newer car. Do I like my current vehicle? Yes and no, but it's paid for and gets me there which are two of it's most redeeming qualities. I can only pray to hold out a few more years and be able to buy a late-model Charger, Grand Marquis, or even Mercedes E-350.

Wayne

 

[Glaucus]

You guys in the US should be happy you don't pay Canadian prices for parts, which are typically double. It really sucks.

Anyway, as for timing belt, well, if it's a non-interfering engine, just wait for it to go. If it is interfering, replace on schedule.

Ya, cars keep getting more expensive to maintain. All those fancy features like AWD, traction control, etc makes things so much more complex. This is especially true for luxury vehicles which are full of gimmicks. But even non-gimmicks like fwd adds a lot to the cost of R&Ring a transmition. I actually contemplated doing my own clutch but after looking at all those pages of steps required just to R&R the tranny I decided against it. I'd be removing the intake and the exhaust and cross members and the funky little active-diff (ATTS) on my car that pretty much makes everything a royal pain in the bum. Just too much technology for people to just jump right in and do it in their backyard. Which also means it requires more skilled mechanics who demand higher wages and longer repair times. Time to buy a bike! Well, maybe not. :wink:

 

[faethor]

You guys in the US should be happy you don't pay Canadian prices for parts,which are typically double. It really sucks.

Once a month I could just throw them across the boarder. :roflmao:

 

[redrumloa]

The one thing I can suggest to you is that a Turbo can be self-replaced, saving at least the labor. Usually, they're just one chip, 2-4 bolts, and a bit of greasework to plug and play. Like replacing a starter or alternator, it's external, meaning buy parts, plug, play.

Not on a TDI it seems, it is much more integrated into the engine. The labor alone is $700 at a non-dealer. I just got the final quote and the part cost for the turbo is $1,020. ~$1,700 for a turbo that has already been replaced before? If I make this repair I will be out ~$4,000 in the last month and still have ~$1,000 hanging over my head? That is still not including more routine items like front bushings that are worn out and rear tires.

I don't know if I am going to make this repair. I am having the shop look for used part. I will entertain changing with a used part so I can dump the car. Otherwise I may not fix it. Any way you cut it I am probably going to dump the car and get a new one that is under warranty.

 

[Glaucus]

Have you looked at aftermarket turbos? Turbos are pretty simple in design, I know guys put Turbos into cars from other car makers. I find the best resource for any car repairs is to go onto a forum and ask questions. You can get parts that way as well, especially rare parts. When I was hunting down a replacement crankshaft for my car I called junk yards across the country. They have a network for used parts and there wasn't a single crank for my car anywhere in NA (I'd need to buy the entire short block or engine). However, when I went to Hondatech, some guy had two crankshafts sitting in his backyard, and he sold one of them to me for a mere $200 - far less then the $2000 the (Canadian) dealership wanted. So even if you don't do the actual labor, you can still do a lot of the work to get that cost down. Knowledge is the key.

Have you been to these site?
http://www.tdiclub.com/
http://www.myturbodiesel.com/

And here's some ebay listings for the VNT turbo which 'm guessing is what you have: VW TDI VNT

Some care tips for a turbo:
- Get an oil cooler for it if it doesn't come with one.
- Get a turbo timer if you can spend the money
- If you can't spend the money on a turbo timer, let the engine run for a bit before shutting it off completely.
- I would also recommend you research what the best oil is to use, in particular, grade of oil. But I'd guess a high quality synthetic is what you want.

 

[faethor]

The turbo being out is just crazy. I had a 1980 Mustang Cobra Turbo. For the age a fun car. Always beat the 5.0's off the line. Though they finally caught up and passed me around 40MPG.

The turbo was mechanical and had no intercooler. Just an oil line. When I got rid of the car, shy of 200K, the turbo still worked. Though oil was leaking out basically everywhere in that engine.

Why does a 1980 Ford technology beat 21st century VW? Egads!

 

[redrumloa]

Ok, now that enough time has passed for me to think clearly, I decided to repair the car. I bought this turbo.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayI ... 3&viewitem

The small shop I am using allowed me to source my own part. That is $620 shipped, but that include a $100 core charge which I will get back. Labor will be $650, so I will be out about $1,200 after getting core charge back. I called dealers entertaining the idea of trading it in as it stands, but they would only give $4,500 on a trade in. I'm going to fix it first and then either trade it in or sell privately. I will probably sell privately as the TDI holds value remarkably well.

http://www.kbb.com/used-cars/volkswagen ... eage=94500

 

[JoBBo]

The turbo being out is just crazy. I had a 1980 Mustang Cobra Turbo. For the age a fun car. Always beat the 5.0's off the line. Though they finally caught up and passed me around 40MPG. The turbo was mechanical and had no intercooler. Just an oil line. When I got rid of the car, shy of 200K, the turbo still worked. Though oil was leaking out basically everywhere in that engine.

Why does a 1980 Ford technology beat 21st century VW? Egads!

'Beat' is a relative term.

Today´s turbochargers usually operate at much higher injection pressures than those in the 80s. There are also other factors such as fuel quality (VW optimizes its motors for higher cetane levels that are normal / legally mandated in the EU) and, of course, driving style.

 

[JoBBo]

VW's are finicky. Those Germans have some strange design ideas. I've heard bad things about their turbo engines and their transmissions have some unique properties that makes working on them tricky.

In terms of performance and fuel efficiency, they are really quite good. But it is not uncommon that the turbocharger has to be replaced sooner rather than later. It happened with the Audi of a relative, who drives very aggressively, and with the VW Passat of a friend, who drives moderately.

That being, all of those cars were built a couple of years ago. I can´t comment on the latest generation of TDI motors.

 

[ltstanfo]

Jim,

Sorry to be silent on this topic. Since Wayne went to the new software, this site is blocked at work (not sure why). Anyway, as the only other TDI owner on this site, I feel your (financial) pain. I love my 2004 VW Passat TDI (BHW engine) but it has been costly. VWs are simply costly to maintain but the benefit in mileage and cruise comfort are hard to beat. It's a trade.

I have two recommendations for you (presuming you keep your Golf):

1. Absolutely follow the recommended maintenance schedule in your owners manual. As a corollary, only use OEM parts (lots of cheap Chinese knock off parts have killed several TDI engines).
2. Get an account on one of the TDI forums (I use TDIClub, same user name). The wealth of info on these places is amazing. It turns out I knew about TDI problems before my local VW dealer did in several cases.

I'm getting ready to do a timing belt change at 90,000 miles but while I am there, I will also be doing a balance shaft change from chain to gear (a very ugly and potentially fatal design issue with the BHW engine). Total cost will be in the neighborhood of $2500-3000, depending on whether I use the local VW dealer or use a recommended private shop in Nashville.

Best of luck Jim. I feel your ($) pain.

Regards,
Ltstanfo

 

[adz]

In terms of performance and fuel efficiency, they are really quite good. But it is not uncommon that the turbocharger has to be replaced sooner rather than later. It happened with the Audi of a relative, who drives very aggressively, and with the VW Passat of a friend, who drives moderately.

That being, all of those cars were built a couple of years ago. I can´t comment on the latest generation of TDI motors.

Audi==Overpriced VW

Sadly, VW have an awful reputation on the Turbo front and I am so glad I never bought the Golf GTI I was looking at. Now driving an Australian made BFII XR6 Turbo that uses a Garrett GT3540, I've installed a larger intercooler and air intake in anticipation of upping the boost somewhat.

Sorry to hear about all your car troubles Jim as I remember you were spitting chips when your first turbo died...

 

[redrumloa]

Audi==Overpriced VW

Sadly, VW have an awful reputation on the Turbo front and I am so glad I never bought the Golf GTI I was looking at. Now driving an Australian made BFII XR6 Turbo that uses a Garrett GT3540, I've installed a larger intercooler and air intake in anticipation of upping the boost somewhat.

Sorry to hear about all your car troubles Jim as I remember you were spitting chips when your first turbo died...

Hey adz! Good to see you back on Whyzzat! Yeah I was pissed when the first turbo went, but at least it went while under warranty. To have 2 turbo failures under 95,000 miles is unacceptable. I am done with the TDI concept.

 

[redrumloa]

Update:
I informally listed my car for sale on tdiclub.com forums for $11,500 and have interested people, one of whom is local and will look at it tomorrow. On the positive side the resale value is VERY strong right now. On the negative side local car dealers over the last ~2 weeks have started marking up their new inventory by several thousand dollars. Right now is a terrible time to buy a new car. It looks like the repercussions of the Japan tragedy has caused a shortage of new cars and dealers are responding by markups, especially fuel efficient cars.

 

[Glaucus]

One man's tragedy is another man's opportunity. Ya, kind of a pointless post, but so what.

 

[cybereye]

One man's tragedy is another man's opportunity. Ya, kind of a pointless post, but so what.

It could be 'One man's tragedy is another man's tragedy.' I know IAKPP (It Another Kind of a Pointless Post).