Socialist Firestations

[faethor]

New Facebook Group -- 1 million strong against socialist fire depts.

FACT: Most Americans never use the socialized services of the fire department. We have the best fire departments in the world in the US, but that doesn't mean that anyone (even non-US citizens) should be able to dial up and have fires put out, etc. There are private companies (Halliburtion, Etc.) who could step in tomorrow and take over every fire department in America and charge the consumer directly.

This is AMERICA. NO FREE FIRE SAFETY.

This is THE new political movement in America. The Birther movement and The Teabagger movement have FAILED. We are The Flamer movement, and we are succeeding at tearing down ALL forms Socialism - starting with our Fire Departments.

Please tell everyone you know about this group.

When it comes to ObamaFireCare, remember, we are: Taxed Enough Already For American Red Truck Socialism.

“Our philosophy is simple. People should die if they can’t afford fire care, and they should go broke if their house burns down. Let the free market decide.”

...

Next to oust roads and librarians.

 

[redrumloa]

I know you are trolling, but I'll bite to a point. I don't know about other areas, but the Fire Departments down here are a joke. Don't get me wrong, there are some great guys (and gals) and they risk their lives at times. The problem is compensation, it is ridiculous. These guys make upwards of $100K a year(I have heard 150k and up), work 3 days a week and retire with a full lifetime pension at 45. It doesn't help when people see 2 or 3 firemen drive the biggest firetruck to Publix to pick up breakfast & lunch every day. It is almost a joke down here. Where is the Fire Department? Check Publix.

Considering these services are funded by publix tax dollars, discussion about things like compensation are fair game. Make them private? I don't know about that, I'd have to see the details of the plan. Charge people per use? I don't know about that either, again would have to see details of a plan. By biggest fear of making them private and charging people for use would be mysterious fire bugs popping up anytime revenue lags.

 

[ilwrath]

The problem is compensation, it is ridiculous. These guys make upwards of $100K a year(I have heard 150k and up), work 3 days a week and retire with a full lifetime pension at 45

Please show some sources for this. I know the fire department in probably the most dangerous US city is almost completely void of funding. Not only do they lack proper safety equipment, the firehouses are in complete shambles due to lack of money for repairs, and they even have to resort to stealing a screen door from a closed firehouse, just to be able to ventilate one of the open ones during the summer. I'd say they're the only public servants that actually DO anything to help the people of Detroit, and they get the worst treatment of the bunch. Privatization would actually be better for these poor bastards. How sad is that?

 

[faethor]

I know you are trolling,

I'd say reporting what I consider some interesting Political Theater. But, point taken.

Considering these services are funded by publix tax dollars, discussion about things like compensation are fair game. Make them private? I don't know about that, I'd have to see the details of the plan.

Easy -- fire services are now private. Any company can build a fire department anywhere and charge any price. Certainly the free market will ensure the usefulness of Fire Departments.

Charge people per use? I don't know about that either, again would have to see details of a plan.

If you don't charge per use then you're essentially charging 'insurance' of response to everyone which is socializing the costs. Socialism is bad. Clearly not everyone needs the Fire Department. Those who wish it to protect them could opt in by paying the free market.

BTW -- Where I live one does get charged by the Fire Department for a response to come to your aid. I believe it's a flat rate of $500.

 

[cecilia]

where I live the Fire Department is volunteers

 

[redrumloa]

I know you are trolling,

I'd say reporting what I consider some interesting Political Theater. But, point taken.

It's all good. This is Whyzzat and I probably venture into troll teritory from time to time :wink:

You can't treat essential public services like just any other private business, for obvious reasons. Could you imagine the horror show if Police departments were publicly traded companies? The main electrical utility in Florida is a good example, even though you could argue this is not an essential service. They are a publicly traded company and they are out of control. Of course, it doesn't help that Florida is one of the most corrupt states in the union if not THE most corrupt.

 

[redrumloa]

Please show some sources for this.

If I can find one later I will, but they aren't hiring atm so it is probably not advertised. Generic website salary calculators are way off.

 

[Glaucus]

If the fire dept was privately run and people had to pay out of pocket, they'd just let their house burn to the ground and collect insurance. Oops, sorry to the neighbors who's house also burned down, sucks to be them.

Ya I don't think so.

 

[Glaucus]

It's all good. This is Whyzzat and I probably venture into troll teritory from time to time :wink:

You can't treat essential public services like just any other private business, for obvious reasons.

And health care is an excellent example of that! So when will you come out of the closet and declare you're all for public health care Red?

 

[Robert]

You can't treat essential public services like just any other private business, for obvious reasons.

Health service isn't essential?

_EDIT_

Mike beat me to it...

 

[redrumloa]

@ Mike & Robert

Good retort and an interesting point, but I still strongly disagree. Public safety and public health are 2 different things. If you make the gov responsible for your health, next step is they will be in your kitchen telling you what you can eat and in your bed telling you who you can bump uglies with. They will also tell women when they can have an abortion, when they cannot and when it will be mandatory. Don't tell me it won't happen, there are plenty of examples to show a turd always slides down a slipery slope.

One thing you 2 forget or don't know is emergency rooms cannot deny a patient, nor even ask for insurance information before treatment. Not ideal, nor is the whole US health care system but I'd rather keep the same system than the monstrosity Obama and the dems are trying to ram-rod down our throats.

-Edit-
You also forget that even our resident dems like faethor don't want this monstrosity. No one wants this POS except Obama and a handful of elitist dems, it is a power grab.

 

[cecilia]

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/25s3099.html

in the middle of the page is legal abortions in europe and america.

summary:

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_IAW.html

 

[Glaucus]

Good retort and an interesting point, but I still strongly disagree. Public safety and public health are 2 different things. If you make the gov responsible for your health, next step is they will be in your kitchen telling you what you can eat and in your bed telling you who you can bump uglies with. They will also tell women when they can have an abortion, when they cannot and when it will be mandatory. Don't tell me it won't happen, there are plenty of examples to show a turd always slides down a slipery slope.

Ok, I won't tell you. Instead I'll tell you it already happens with your existing system. It wasn't that long ago that bumping uglies together with someone who had the same kinda uglies was illegal and in most of the US it's still illegal to marry people who share the same kind of ugly bumpies. Women already have restrictions on getting abortions, and if the Republican party had it's way, there would be a lot more.

And since I promised not to tell you that it won't happen, could you find examples from other countries with public health care that have placed restrictions on bumping uglies or abortion that is somehow different from what you already have in the US? Typically I find the socialist European nations to be more liberal about those things.

One thing you 2 forget or don't know is emergency rooms cannot deny a patient, nor even ask for insurance information before treatment.

Well, that's great, you can save a person with a heart attack, but most health experts believe heart attacks don't just happen out of the blue. They are usually a product of other health issues that could have been treated. High blood pressure, once diagnosed by a doctor, can be treated. But if you can't get coverage for whatever reason, I guess it's kinda reassuring to know that they will at least give it one last shot at saving your poor overstressed and permanently damaged heart. And last I checked, bypass surgery is far more expensive then the cost of a few beta blockers taken daily. But then I guess this is why your health care system costs more and is less effective when compared to socialized health care systems.

 

[faethor]

You can't treat essential public services like just any other private business, for obvious reasons.

And really isn't this the heart of the arguement? This political theatre leads into the discussion on what is and what should be an essential public service.

Could you imagine the horror show if Police departments were publicly traded companies?

We saw what happened with the use of Blackwater during Katrina. The first thing the conservative hired private companies did was take away guns. The effect was a successful end run at removing citizen's rights that the National Guard wouldn't be allowed to partake in.

The main electrical utility in Florida is a good example, even though you could argue this is not an essential service. They are a publicly traded company and they are out of control. Of course, it doesn't help that Florida is one of the most corrupt states in the union if not THE most corrupt.

The problem this highlights is one of localized monopolies. Run away prices, poor service, etc. We clearly see this with healthcare insurance industry -- 60% increase to rates with a 20% denial of coverage are happening in California even as the industry makes billions in profits.

One thing you 2 forget or don't know is emergency rooms cannot deny a patient, nor even ask for insurance information before treatment.

IMO the emergency room cannot deny a patient death prevention. This is very different from actual healthcare.