Stalin bust has Virginia town red-faced

[redrumloa]

Gee, who saw this coming :roll:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/201 ... red-faced/

Expect more of this to come. First we have Che teeshirts and imagery, next will be Stalin. So many weak minds, so much time.

 

[Glaucus]

Admit it Red, you have one in your backyard.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

What's the problem. He was on the Allies team, he helped win the war against Hitler. Is that sort of truth just inconvenient? Do Americans simply want to forget history? Is that why they can't seem to learn from it? Just because something is embarrassing doesn't mean it isn't true. It's fully appropriate to have Stalin there because it reflects the politics of the time. Yes, the men who died on D-Day died fighting on the same side as Stalin.

 

[redrumloa]

Yes, the men who died on D-Day died fighting on the same side as Stalin.

There were no Russians storming the beach on D-Day.

 

[Glaucus]

Both you guys are right. What I would add is that Stalin wasn't really a true ally - he had no problems with Hitler taking over most of Europe until Hitler decided to attack Russia. I also wonder if the Western allies didn't secretly wish the NAZIs would wipe out the Soviets and depose Stalin before they would be in a position to take out Hitler. And let's not forget that Paton urged his commanders to invade Russia immediately after the fall of Germany - not exactly how one treat's an ally. So ya, Russia, the US and the UK were fighting on the same side, but they were never really allies.

Is Stalin's involvement in the war a historic fact that needs to be mentioned? Absolutely. Do we need to pretend that Stalin and America were once friends? That would be a farce.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Yes, the men who died on D-Day died fighting on the same side as Stalin.

There were no Russians storming the beach on D-Day.

The Soviets lost far more men (and women and children for that matter) than the US did. They had been in the war longer than the US too.

And here they are, the "Big Three" as they were called, at Yalta in 1945. They were the leaders of the allies forces at the time of D-Day. It's important, especially when remembering war that it makes strange bedfellows. Stalin was a bastard before, during and after the war but at least during the war he was "our" bastard. Politics hasn't changed since then.

If there is any insult to those who died it is that they fought and died for ideals that their leaders never shared in and for freedoms that their leaders wanted only for themselves and never intended to share. And that their children and grandchildren still fight and die for the same empty promises.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

What I would add is that Stalin wasn't really a true ally - .

The Soviet Union and Great Britain signed a pact. That makes you real allies. They may have had different interests outside of war with Hitler, but on that one issue they were pledged.

Now, country who isn't a real ally would be a country like Israel to the US. There is no treaty between Israel and the USA so they are not technically allies. The US and Turkey, however, ARE allies as they have a treaty, military agreement of mutual protection. Being allied and acting like it are two different things.

 

[redrumloa]

Yes, the men who died on D-Day died fighting on the same side as Stalin.

There were no Russians storming the beach on D-Day.

The Soviets lost far more men (and women and children for that matter) than the US did. They had been in the war longer than the US too.

There were no Russians storming the beach on D-Day. The story is about a but at the National D-Day Memorial.

 

[Glaucus]

The Soviet Union and Great Britain signed a pact. That makes you real allies. They may have had different interests outside of war with Hitler, but on that one issue they were pledged.

Greece and Turkey both signed a pact to defend any other NATO nation, but I'd be interested to see if you can find any Greek who considers Turkey (or even the US for that matter) a true ally. Hilter and Stalin also signed a pact before Hitler invaded Russia, so in that sense Stalin was allies with Hitler. Pacts and treaties don't mean that much. Furthermore, the US did not sign that pact with Russia, nor was the US considered part of the commonwealth at the time, so then according to your own definition they were not allies. That's not to say there wasn't some form of agreement between the nations, but that's beside the point.

 

[FluffyMcDeath]

Greece and Turkey both signed a pact to defend any other NATO nation, but I'd be interested to see if you can find any Greek who considers Turkey (or even the US for that matter) a true ally.

What the average citizen thinks about an ally is largely irrelevant. Nations don't exist to represent their citizens. My company may have inked a strategic relationship deal with microsoft. Nobody cares how I feel about microsoft.

Hilter and Stalin also signed a pact before Hitler invaded Russia, so in that sense Stalin was allies with Hitler.

It would have if it had been a mutual defense treaty but it was a non-aggression treaty that simply stated that if either side were attacked by a third party than the signatories would not fight on the side of the aggressor.

Pacts and treaties don't mean that much.

It is a matter of honour. If you are supreme than you can get your way by force but generally honour is the currency between nobles.

Furthermore, the US did not sign that pact with Russia, nor was the US considered part of the commonwealth at the time, so then according to your own definition they were not allies.

There was no need for an explicit alliance between the US and USSR. Both being allies of the UK was sufficient. The UK was still a recently major power at that time, and was still in possession of much of it's empire.

 

[Glaucus]

Greece and Turkey both signed a pact to defend any other NATO nation, but I'd be interested to see if you can find any Greek who considers Turkey (or even the US for that matter) a true ally.

What the average citizen thinks about an ally is largely irrelevant. Nations don't exist to represent their citizens. My company may have inked a strategic relationship deal with microsoft. Nobody cares how I feel about microsoft.

That's just Canadian multicultural mumbojumbo. Try living in a place that has 1) a long and rich history and 2) homogeneous culture. Believe me, there's no Greek politician who'd have the balls to side with turkey, and I'm not talking about losing votes. As far as this thread goes, Red was right, Stalin had nothing to do with D-Day just like Roosevelt had nothing to do with the battle at Stalingrad. I should have left it at that as he was wise to do so.

 

[Robert]

Stalin wasn't really a true ally - he had no problems with Hitler taking over most of Europe until Hitler decided to attack Russia.

By that logic the USA wasn't an ally either.

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

I'm very grateful living in a country that only has monuments for those who fell in that terrible war.