- Joined
- Apr 2, 2005
- Messages
- 14,973
- Reaction score
- 2,154
Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster"
- Thread starter redrumloa
- Start date
- Joined
- May 17, 2005
- Messages
- 12,257
- Reaction score
- 2,693
Re: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster&qu
Well, building infrastructure isn't a complete waste in the way that building weapons that just get used up for no good gain is. You may not get much stimulus but you get more than just giving money to banks as was done under the old regime where the government overpaid by 78 billion bucks for junk.
What really needs to happen is for the US government to stop using the Federal Reserve to create money. The Government must do as it is Constitutionally required to do - be the ONLY body that is allowed to create money. If the government's bond is sufficient assurance for the Federal Reserve to borrow against then it is sufficient assurance for the people to use as their money. What the Federal Reserve does is take the people's promise to pay themselves back as collateral to issue money above and beyond that promise into the system and charge interest on the extra money they create. It's fundamentally a scam because of the exponential nature of interest.
“It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay but one fattens the usurers and the other helps the people.”
Thomas Edison, inventor.
And that's the point. The Federal Reserve is not necessary. It isn't even Constitutionally allowed. It is simply a parasitic middle man skimming wealth.
Ron Paul (R) wants to end the Federal Reserve and Dennis Kucinich (D) plans to table a motion
Well, building infrastructure isn't a complete waste in the way that building weapons that just get used up for no good gain is. You may not get much stimulus but you get more than just giving money to banks as was done under the old regime where the government overpaid by 78 billion bucks for junk.
What really needs to happen is for the US government to stop using the Federal Reserve to create money. The Government must do as it is Constitutionally required to do - be the ONLY body that is allowed to create money. If the government's bond is sufficient assurance for the Federal Reserve to borrow against then it is sufficient assurance for the people to use as their money. What the Federal Reserve does is take the people's promise to pay themselves back as collateral to issue money above and beyond that promise into the system and charge interest on the extra money they create. It's fundamentally a scam because of the exponential nature of interest.
“It is absurd to say that our country can issue $30 million in bonds and not $30 million in currency. Both are promises to pay but one fattens the usurers and the other helps the people.”
Thomas Edison, inventor.
And that's the point. The Federal Reserve is not necessary. It isn't even Constitutionally allowed. It is simply a parasitic middle man skimming wealth.
Ron Paul (R) wants to end the Federal Reserve and Dennis Kucinich (D) plans to table a motion
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 7,713
- Reaction score
- 2,588
Bush overpaid banks in bailout, watchdog says
By JIM KUHNHENN
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration overpaid tens of billions of dollars for stocks and other assets in its massive bailout last year of Wall Street banks and financial institutions, a new study by a government watchdog says.
The Congressional Oversight Panel, in a report released Friday, said last year's overpayments amounted to a taxpayer-financed $78 billion subsidy of the firms.
The findings added to the frustrations of lawmakers already wary of the $700 billion rescue plan, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program. Congress approved the plan last fall, but members of both parties criticized spending decisions by the Bush administration and former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson.
Financially ailing insurance giant American International Group, deemed by the Treasury Department to be too big to be allowed to fail, received $40 billion from the Treasury for assets valued at $14.8 billion, the oversight panel found.
The misgivings come as new Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is preparing to place the Obama administration's imprint on the program with a sweeping new framework for helping banks, loosening credit and helping reduce foreclosures. Geithner plans to unveil the changes Monday.
In a bright spot for the rescue program, the same banks that received capital infusions from Treasury have already paid $271 million in dividends to the federal government and are expected to pay $1.5 billion more in dividends by the end of this month. Wells Fargo, which received a $25 billion infusion, has already announced it would pay Treasury $371 million in dividends this month.
The oversight panel examined 10 transactions, including eight made under a capital purchase program designed to put liquidity into the banks in hopes of easing credit. That money went to banks considered "healthy" financially but in need of capital to make loans.
Two other transactions went to AIG and to Citigroup Inc. under programs designed to help companies that were facing serious financial difficulties.
Overall, the panel and the analysts it retained to conduct the valuation study found that the Treasury used taxpayers' money to pay $62.5 billion more than the value of assets in the 10 transactions it examined. By extrapolating to the more than 300 institutions that received money, it concluded that the government in effect paid $78 billion more than the actual value of the asset at the time.
"Treasury chose to offer 'one size fits all' pricing in order to encourage all institutions to participate, and in so doing disregarded apparent differences in their financial condition," the report states. "A consequence is that Treasury effectively offered weaker participants greater subsidies than it offered to stronger participants."
Panel Chairwoman Elizabeth Warren, testifying to the Senate banking committee Thursday, said: "There may be good policy reasons for overpaying, but without a clearly delineated reason, we can't know that."
Reacting to the panel's conclusions, Treasury spokesman Isaac Baker said in a statement: "Treasury's efforts since the fall prevented a systemwide collapse, but more needs to be done to stabilize the financial sector, increase lending and protect taxpayer dollars."
He said the plan that Geithner will announce on Monday aims to free up credit, "while strengthening transparency and accountability measures so that taxpayers know where and how their money is being spent and whether it's achieving real results."
Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said the overpayment was sure to "raise eyebrows."
"I can understand some gap," he said. "No one is expecting perfection between the price you pay and what you think you're getting. But that's a pretty large disparity."
Another fund watchdog urged the Obama administration to be clearer about the true value of the nearly $300 billion the Treasury has infused into more than 300 institutions through purchases of assets such as preferred stock.
"Treasury needs, in the near term, to begin developing a more complete strategy on what to do with the very substantial portfolio that it now manages on behalf of the American people," said Neil Barofksy, the special inspector general for the rescue program.
By JIM KUHNHENN
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration overpaid tens of billions of dollars for stocks and other assets in its massive bailout last year of Wall Street banks and financial institutions, a new study by a government watchdog says.
The Congressional Oversight Panel, in a report released Friday, said last year's overpayments amounted to a taxpayer-financed $78 billion subsidy of the firms.
The findings added to the frustrations of lawmakers already wary of the $700 billion rescue plan, known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program. Congress approved the plan last fall, but members of both parties criticized spending decisions by the Bush administration and former Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson.
Financially ailing insurance giant American International Group, deemed by the Treasury Department to be too big to be allowed to fail, received $40 billion from the Treasury for assets valued at $14.8 billion, the oversight panel found.
The misgivings come as new Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner is preparing to place the Obama administration's imprint on the program with a sweeping new framework for helping banks, loosening credit and helping reduce foreclosures. Geithner plans to unveil the changes Monday.
In a bright spot for the rescue program, the same banks that received capital infusions from Treasury have already paid $271 million in dividends to the federal government and are expected to pay $1.5 billion more in dividends by the end of this month. Wells Fargo, which received a $25 billion infusion, has already announced it would pay Treasury $371 million in dividends this month.
The oversight panel examined 10 transactions, including eight made under a capital purchase program designed to put liquidity into the banks in hopes of easing credit. That money went to banks considered "healthy" financially but in need of capital to make loans.
Two other transactions went to AIG and to Citigroup Inc. under programs designed to help companies that were facing serious financial difficulties.
Overall, the panel and the analysts it retained to conduct the valuation study found that the Treasury used taxpayers' money to pay $62.5 billion more than the value of assets in the 10 transactions it examined. By extrapolating to the more than 300 institutions that received money, it concluded that the government in effect paid $78 billion more than the actual value of the asset at the time.
"Treasury chose to offer 'one size fits all' pricing in order to encourage all institutions to participate, and in so doing disregarded apparent differences in their financial condition," the report states. "A consequence is that Treasury effectively offered weaker participants greater subsidies than it offered to stronger participants."
Panel Chairwoman Elizabeth Warren, testifying to the Senate banking committee Thursday, said: "There may be good policy reasons for overpaying, but without a clearly delineated reason, we can't know that."
Reacting to the panel's conclusions, Treasury spokesman Isaac Baker said in a statement: "Treasury's efforts since the fall prevented a systemwide collapse, but more needs to be done to stabilize the financial sector, increase lending and protect taxpayer dollars."
He said the plan that Geithner will announce on Monday aims to free up credit, "while strengthening transparency and accountability measures so that taxpayers know where and how their money is being spent and whether it's achieving real results."
Senate Banking Chairman Chris Dodd, D-Conn., said the overpayment was sure to "raise eyebrows."
"I can understand some gap," he said. "No one is expecting perfection between the price you pay and what you think you're getting. But that's a pretty large disparity."
Another fund watchdog urged the Obama administration to be clearer about the true value of the nearly $300 billion the Treasury has infused into more than 300 institutions through purchases of assets such as preferred stock.
"Treasury needs, in the near term, to begin developing a more complete strategy on what to do with the very substantial portfolio that it now manages on behalf of the American people," said Neil Barofksy, the special inspector general for the rescue program.
Re: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster&qu
The "Buy American" thing was big on the news here earlier in the week. I think it was that any American companies receiving cash must give preference to American suppliers.
What's your (or anyone else's?) take on that?
The "Buy American" thing was big on the news here earlier in the week. I think it was that any American companies receiving cash must give preference to American suppliers.
What's your (or anyone else's?) take on that?
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2005
- Messages
- 5,144
- Reaction score
- 1,243
Re: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster&am
Though it is interesting seeing the Republicans cry this $1 Trillion will sink the economy. Certainly their $9Trillion deficit have nothing to do with it. :roll:
I think that the stimulus would be more helpful with a Buy American preference. One estimate in Minnesota was that for each $1.00 spent with a MN based business generates another $.75 in spending for the state. I think it's reasonable for that microeconomic effect to work on the more macro whole US concept.smithy said:
Though it is interesting seeing the Republicans cry this $1 Trillion will sink the economy. Certainly their $9Trillion deficit have nothing to do with it. :roll:
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 10,232
- Reaction score
- 3,006
Re: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster&am
Motivational Currency to replace Dollar
WSJ: The Stimulus Tragedy
Motivational Currency to replace Dollar
WSJ: The Stimulus Tragedy
- Joined
- May 17, 2005
- Messages
- 12,257
- Reaction score
- 2,693
Re: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster&qu
Now that the "Buy American" clause gone/watered down, thanks to globalization the rest of the world has a free stimulus! Just think...
Your new roads and bridges will be built by shiny new Mercedes-Benz bulldozers and earth moving equipment.
Cheap steel from Romania for new public buildings.
Endless cheap furniture, electronics and everything else to go in your new buildings from China.
The project managers/architects will get new Lexus's to drive around in.
Belgian beers for the builders.
Lots of immigrant labour from Mexico.
You can see the reason for the EU's outrage, after the the "Buy American" clause. Thanks to globalization and the US's import-it mentality, money flows in one-way direction out of the US and into everywhere else. This stimulus bill will benefit Europe very nicely, thank you very much.
Meanwhile, President Sarkozy has announced some protectionism of his own. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4581912/French-bail-out-of-car-industry-may-be-illegal.html
Now that the "Buy American" clause gone/watered down, thanks to globalization the rest of the world has a free stimulus! Just think...
Your new roads and bridges will be built by shiny new Mercedes-Benz bulldozers and earth moving equipment.
Cheap steel from Romania for new public buildings.
Endless cheap furniture, electronics and everything else to go in your new buildings from China.
The project managers/architects will get new Lexus's to drive around in.
Belgian beers for the builders.
Lots of immigrant labour from Mexico.
You can see the reason for the EU's outrage, after the the "Buy American" clause. Thanks to globalization and the US's import-it mentality, money flows in one-way direction out of the US and into everywhere else. This stimulus bill will benefit Europe very nicely, thank you very much.
Meanwhile, President Sarkozy has announced some protectionism of his own. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/4581912/French-bail-out-of-car-industry-may-be-illegal.html
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 10,232
- Reaction score
- 3,006
Re: Stimulus Bill Will Lead to "Unmitigated Disaster&am
Should The Government Stop Dumping Money Into A Giant Hole?
Should The Government Stop Dumping Money Into A Giant Hole?
