The Courage Campaign

[cecilia]

The latest email I have gotten from this group (yes, I signed in a few days ago):

The numbers are mind-blowing.

350 cities. 50 states. 8 countries. More than 100,000 people around the world.

That's what "Join the Impact" -- an organic bottom-up, internet-driven campaign to protest Prop 8 -- organized in just one week, mobilizing people around the world last Saturday in their communities to support marriage equality.

275,547 people.

That's how many people have joined you in signing the pledge to "Repeal Prop 8," launched by the Courage Campaign and joined by our friends at CREDO Mobile and MoveOn.

The larger this movement grows, the sooner marriage equality will be restored to California.

Please help us build this movement by forwarding this email to your social networks -- your family, friends and neighbors. Then click on the following page to see how many new people have taken the pledge. We'll be updating the total number of signers frequently over the next 48 hours:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/RepealProp8

We are witnessing the birth of a new Marriage Equality Movement -- the civil rights movement of the 21st Century. Organized from the bottom-up by thousands of ordinary people just like you in the aftermath of the passage of Prop 8, this people-powered phenomenon is exponentially growing by the minute, online and offline.

But it will take a long-term, sustainable grassroots movement -- neighbors talking to neighbors across California -- to make marriage equality history. As Becky Bond, CREDO Mobile Political Director, said when CREDO announced its support of the "Repeal Prop 8" campaign:

"We are joining our allies at the Courage Campaign by pledging to stand up for the rights of every Californian. We will put pressure on legal entities to join this fight. We will shine a spotlight on the public figures who stand against us as well as those who stand with us..."

275,547 people are standing strong together -- gay and straight -- against Prop 8. Now, we need your help to expand this movement into every community in California. Please forward this message to at least five of your friends and ask them to join you in pledging to repeal Prop 8. Then click here to see frequent updates on how many new signers have taken the pledge:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/RepealProp8

This Marriage Equality Movement is capturing the attention of people across America, from the thousands of people who have never participated in a march before to the numerous organizations now vowing to leverage their resources to repeal Prop 8.

If we can build the kind of people-powered campaign that lifted President-elect Barack Obama into the White House, together, we can restore marriage equality to California.

Thank you for doing everything you can to change California and our country.

Rick Jacobs
Chair

 

[Fade]

Don't like the results of California's voters so you want a do-over huh?

You belong right over there in Africa with one of those leaders that lose elections but keep doing it over and over again until the people agree that he really won.

Cecilia you have forfeited any right to the claim that you support the constitution because frankly, you don't have a clue! :roll:

 

[the_leander]

Don't like the results of California's voters so you want a do-over huh?

You belong right over there in Africa with one of those leaders that lose elections but keep doing it over and over again until the people agree that he really won.

You're comparing Cecilia to, amongst others, Robert Mugabe?

Cecilia you have forfeited any right to the claim that you support the constitution because frankly, you don't have a clue! :roll:

Two things: 1: You forfeit the right be taken in any way seriously. Period. Anyone who would argue that trying to campaign for equal rights is equivilent to the butchery that has gone on in Zimbabwe... I'll leave the rest up to you to work out.

2: The constitution as I understand it allows for debate and discussion, it also specifically allows for the repeal and removal of bad law.

Either way you swing it, what you've posted is not only sickening, but utterly wrong.

 

[Fade]

Alan, apparently you are easily sickened when you don't get your way.
Every election has a loser, and someone's Ox is gored every time.
If you can so readily agree to dismiss the results of an election then you don't deserve to participate in one.

Or to put it in the same terms that Cecilia wants to use, we just had an election that 60 million voters don't like. Do they deserve to have a do-over?

Alan said
"2: The constitution as I understand it allows for debate and discussion, it also specifically allows for the repeal and removal of bad law. "
-----------------------------------

Do you not know what you just said?
That is exactly what just happened.

A group of judges in California made a law without the voters having a say so.
A proposition was put on the ballot to repeal that law.
The voters of California just voted to repeal that law.

 

[faethor]

Don't like the results of California's voters so you want a do-over huh?

In the 1860s the 14th ammendment defined voters and citizens as male. The 'do-over' was in the late 1920 when the 19th ammendment was ratified.

It would appear your 'Give me liberty or give me death' icon is nothing less than an attempt at irony.

Fade you have forfeited any right to the claim that you support the constitution because frankly, you don't have a clue! :roll:

 

[cecilia]

2: The constitution as I understand it allows for debate and discussion, it also specifically allows for the repeal and removal of bad law.

quite correct.
and while I would prefer that the voters NOT vote for something which TAKES rights away from my fellow human beings because that IS unConstitutional...I do realize that all these issues take time.....and I'm in it for the long haul.

 

[Glaucus]

I don't understand why this was even voted on. Is it normal to vote on laws during an election in the US? Or is it just this one issue?

Here in Canada the courts did the same thing; they ruled the government can't discriminate against gay couples. When the Conservatives took power 2.5 years ago they had a vote on it. Now, the interesting thing here is that regardless of the vote result, the courts would have won in the end anyway because constitution trumps laws, and if it ever went back to court, they'd come to the same conclusion. Luckily, our MPs decided to vote on the side of the constitution and we don't have to go through that fiasco.

And as for referendums, just look to Quebec to see that if you fail once, you can always try again. If Californians believe in this, they should just keep trying until they get it. They only need to win once.

- Mike

 

[James T Kirk]

cecilia Open-Minded might want to close her mind on some things since she has no idea what she is talking about.

1) Prop 8 stands as voted per the process.
2) Protesting peacefully within the law is allowed thanks to The Constitution which is protected by the Commander and Chief of the United States. But protesting has no bearing on law.
3) Same Sex Marriage opens all kinds of legal issues that are destructive to communities and this country.
4) People can participate in Homosexual activities as partners in this free country. Why do they need special rights for that?
5) Same Sex Marriage is being confused with the Black Civil Rights movement which was about all races living in peaceful harmony. Not about sexual preference. That should upset Civil Rights Activists.
6) Men cannot get pregnant per the normal biological precepts set by either nature or a higher order in life (whatever you belief is). This is a clear indicator that Homosexuality is not consistent with the normal order of life.
7) Women cannot fertilize other women (reference statement 6 above).
8) Most major religions such as Islam, Hindo, Christian (Catholic and Protestant) consider Homosexuality contrary to religious teachings and murder, theft, adultery, etc. In some cases it is punished by execution.
9) There is nothing of value to come from Homosexual activities other than two peoples feeling toward each other. That in its self is selfish if it puts a community by
a. tearing down the traditional nucleus family
b. spreading disease
c. causing the rise in health insurance
d. stressing the courts and legal system
e. causing undue hate relations and intolerance by Homosexuals (called Homophobia)
f. more…

I would suggest that the Homosexual crowd lay low and just live quietly in peace.

 

[cecilia]

I don't understand why this was even voted on. Is it normal to vote on laws during an election in the US? Or is it just this one issue?

every state have their own issues that are added in just about every elections

it's quite normal, actually

 

[faethor]

cecilia Open-Minded might want to close her mind on some things since she has no idea what she is talking about.

1) Prop 8 stands as voted per the process.

No reason to 'give up' the fight for equality.

3) Same Sex Marriage opens all kinds of legal issues that are destructive to communities and this country.

No it doesn't.

4) People can participate in Homosexual activities as partners in this free country. Why do they need special rights for that?

There are lots of legal reasons. Adoption of children. The right to ensure you can be with your loved one at the end of their life are a couple that come to mind.

5) Same Sex Marriage is being confused with the Black Civil Rights movement which was about all races living in peaceful harmony. Not about sexual preference. That should upset Civil Rights Activists.

Equal rights has a variety of aspects. When certain citizens are more vulvernable to unrelated causes this should be of concern. For example, I believe 36 states one can be fired for being gay. Though who one sleeps with has NO bearing on how well they can perform their job.

6) Men cannot get pregnant per the normal biological precepts set by either nature or a higher order in life (whatever you belief is). This is a clear indicator that Homosexuality is not consistent with the normal order of life.

While it's true that men can't get pregnant it's not true it's inconsistent with normal life. Other animals have homosexual behaviors. around 1500 species So yes it seems to be natural.

7) Women cannot fertilize other women (reference statement 6 above).

Actually in modern society the male could be rendered unnecessary. There are sperm banks with plenty of storage and the possibility of cloning both the sperm and the individual. Women are still needed to bear the offspring.

8) Most major religions such as Islam, Hindo, Christian (Catholic and Protestant) consider Homosexuality contrary to religious teachings and murder, theft, adultery, etc. In some cases it is punished by execution.

Part of the problem is the term 'marriage' is used by the state and by the church. We as a nation, as defined by the Treaty of Tripoli and Jefferson, as not founded as Christian nation. Both the state and the church should be forced to call 'marriage' by a different term. I suggest 'holy union' for the church and 'civil union' for the state.

9) There is nothing of value to come from Homosexual activities other than two peoples feeling toward each other.

An estimated $1B to be generated in California to allow homosexual marriage is a large value. Also, it recognizes people's commitment to one another.

a. tearing down the traditional nucleus family

Nope the 50% divorce rate is at fault of this.

b. spreading disease

Marriage does not give someone a magic protection spell against any disease.

c. causing the rise in health insurance

In no way.

d. stressing the courts and legal system

It's may be more of a stressor now as people have to hire lawyers and work the legal system to get rights that a marriage from the state would otherwise extend.

e. causing undue hate relations and intolerance by Homosexuals (called Homophobia)

Not any more then black marriage extended hatred of blacks or interacial marriage extended hatred of blacks.

I would suggest that the Homosexual crowd lay low and just live quietly in peace.

Fear is good. Good conservative motto now run along.

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

The thing that bothers me the most in this 'discussion' is that conservatives tend to decide about things that don't apply to their own lives.

 

[Glaucus]

Wayne, where do you find these morons?

 

[James T Kirk]

Wayne, where do you find these morons?

I guess you use the term "morons" in a loving spirit and not a hateful one. I would not want to be accused of "playing the hate card". In addition, your comment was very value added and it is a shining example of the depth of your willingness to be tolerant of people who disagree with your viewpoint. This is a message board where people are supposed to be allowed to communicate and express ideas. I thought faethor had some interesting points that I did not agree with however; in being civil I will consider these points and do it with out name calling. I suggest that if you, Glaucus, cannot play with the other boys and girls with blowing a gasket and spewing hatred, seek counseling. Thank you.

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Wayne, where do you find these morons?

I guess you use the term "morons" in a loving spirit and not a hateful one. I would not want to be accused of "playing the hate card".

Well you already did, luv. You outed some millennia old cliche's without bothering to find any counter-arguments on the net -which really shouldn't be that hard to find-
And thereby, as I already mentioned, you talk about stuff which does not apply to you.

 

[cecilia]

The thing that bothers me the most in this 'discussion' is that conservatives tend to decide about things that don't apply to their own lives.

i've notice that at least in the USA that sometimes a person who apparently turns out to be gay is the one starting the anti-gay legislation.

they are later found out to have gay porn on their computers or caught with another guy, etc and then they are OUT!

and the irony is that they claimed to be anti-gay all along.

it's the weirdness that is America, i guess

frankly, i don't understand any of this silliness.

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

The thing that bothers me the most in this 'discussion' is that conservatives tend to decide about things that don't apply to their own lives.

i've notice that at least in the USA that sometimes a person who apparently turns out to be gay is the one starting the anti-gay legislation.

they are later found out to have gay porn on their computers or caught with another guy, etc and then they are OUT!

and the irony is that they claimed to be anti-gay all along.

it's the weirdness that is America, i guess

frankly, i don't understand any of this silliness.

Yes, but far from all those who voted against, are. They hear about something 'odd', they hear bad things about it, they vote against. They're not questioning the things they hear, they don't care because it's not about them and thus one can be better 'safe' than 'sorry'.
In any case that's a very bad attitude, IMO

 

[cecilia]

The thing that bothers me the most in this 'discussion' is that conservatives tend to decide about things that don't apply to their own lives.

i've notice that at least in the USA that sometimes a person who apparently turns out to be gay is the one starting the anti-gay legislation.

they are later found out to have gay porn on their computers or caught with another guy, etc and then they are OUT!

and the irony is that they claimed to be anti-gay all along.

it's the weirdness that is America, i guess

frankly, i don't understand any of this silliness.

Yes, but far from all those who voted against, are. They hear about something 'odd', they hear bad things about it, they vote against. They're questioning the things they hear, they don't care because it's not about them and thus one can be better 'safe' than 'sorry'.
In any case that's a very bad attitude, IMO

sure, and that fear is unAmerican and shameful.

 

[faethor]

Yes, but far from all those who voted against, are. They hear about something 'odd', they hear bad things about it, they vote against. They're not questioning the things they hear, they don't care because it's not about them and thus one can be better 'safe' than 'sorry'.
In any case that's a very bad attitude, IMO

This activity has been part of Rove's playbook. Try and get divisive issues which users care emotionally for but in reality don't impact them on the ballot. This will help ensure that the conservative quackery comes out to vote. South Dakota had to put abortion on their ballot in 2006. Various states anti-gay marriage clauses. 2008, this time was California against Gay Marriage. Palin herself was used as a tool of divisivenss. It was good to see Obama stay on the hopeful message and see the politics of fear fail.

 

[faethor]

cecilia Open-Minded might want to close her mind on some things since she has no idea what she is talking about.

1) Prop 8 stands as voted per the process.

An interesting fact.. Alabama did not remove miscegenation from their state constitution until the 8 years ago. Yes it took Alabama and South Carolina until 2000 to recognize at the state level interracial marriages. And afterall mixed marriages were unnatural and against God's will....

 

[Fade]

faethor said
"Alabama did not remove miscegenation from their state constitution until the 8 years ago."
---------------------------------

It's always funny when someone is so eager to feed some sh!t to the uninformed, that they fail to find out the whole story themselves.

Well faethor, have a heaping plate for yourself.

What faethor failed to tell you is, it was the Democratic Alabama legislature that had blocked reform to the state constitution for decades, or that it was the newly elected Republican Attorney General Bill Pryor that pushed to get the amendment on the ballot for a vote. Meanwhile the Democratic Governor at the time, Don Siegelman sat on his butt and did nothing to support the amendment.

You want some salt on that faethor? Democratic ex-Gov. Don Siegelman is still trying to appeal his bribery and mail fraud conviction.