The death of the USA, aka "The Obama Effect"

redrumloa

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Gold is up 58% since Obama was elected, and it will keep climbing.

http://charts.barchart.com/chart.asp?sy ... IC&org=stk

The USD (value of the money in your wallet) is worth 13% less than it was when Obama was elected. (makes 2% CDs laughable).

http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=NYBOT_DX

The real unemployment rate is 17.5%.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34040009

While the USA crumbles, Obama continues to push every corrupt liberal ideal regardless of cost.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/34148634

The US pledge came as President Obama decided to go to Copenhagen next month to participate in the long-anticipated, high-stakes global climate summit.

The president will attend the summit on Dec. 9 before heading to Oslo to accept the Nobel Peace Prize, the official said. Obama's attendance had been in question until now.

Yup, Obama promised change and we got change. The problem is, that "change" is for the worse. Far worse.
 
redrumloa said:
Occam's razor.
The simpliest answer is often correct? Seems to me the simpler answer and one with significantly more evidence is the shift from a creditor nation, which ended in the 70s, to a debtor nation in the 80s. The last 30 years have been down ever since.

Obama's nearing 9 months of rule. Clearly he is not the one that sunk the economy. That's been in the making for decades and started before McCain proclaimed a great economy on the campaign trail.

It also is the case in the last 30 years we've shifted manufacturing overseas and failed to protect our own industries with the proper traffifs. Again the simple answer is 30 years. It'd be hella complex to break it this bad in 9 months.

The Occam's Razors? Moving into 30 years of supply side economics is the clear failure. Obama should be more Roosevelt and less Clinton in the handling of the economy.

If anything it appears that Obama's policies and immediate spending kept us from falling into a 2nd Republican Depression.

A falling $ is good if one is repaying debts. That's what should be done.
 
faethor said:
redrumloa said:
Occam's razor.
The simpliest answer is often correct?

No, 'The answer Jim would like is the one he is going to assert.'

Usually with the aid of a dancing banana. ;-)
 
faethor said:
A falling $ is good if one is repaying debts. That's what should be done.

No it is not what should be done, but *IS* what is being done. The money printing press has been in overdrive since Bush, but Obama doubled the machines and added overtime shifts. The USD has massive inflation or hyper inflation, your and my standard of living nose-dives at breakneck speed. Gold is telling the story. Obama says everything is rosey while the damage continues.

Once again I'll explain I know the crisis didn't start under Obama, but he is the one making things vastly worse to point of no return.
(Remember, I made the Downfall of Rome threads years ago under Bush's watch)

If anything it appears that Obama's policies and immediate spending kept us from falling into a 2nd Republican Depression.

We are in a Depression, period. Obama didn't stop anything, unemployment is worsening under his watch. The real unemployment number is 17.5% (conservative). Liberal tree hugging projects based on fake science and purposeful destruction of the USD will not help anything, unless you think we becoming the next China with sweatshops is a good thing.

-edit-
Happy Thanksgiving by the way.
 
redrumloa said:
faethor said:
A falling $ is good if one is repaying debts. That's what should be done.
No it is not what should be done, but *IS* what is being done.
I'd disagree. For example if you could pay off a $1 loan at $.90 wouldn't you do it? Of course! Going the other way is a deal for the lender not the borrower. That being said this should be a short term policy only. Doing this long term could have bad consequences...such as no one lending to you again. Or in the case of the US the dollar no longer being the world's trading currency.

The money printing press has been in overdrive since Bush, but Obama doubled the machines and added overtime shifts.
Note quite. Bush pushed through a near $1Trillion for a financial industry bail out. Obama followed with the same. There wasn't doubling from Bush. The increase is around 20% more. However, I agree a decrease is needed. I think, again, as a short term policy this makes sense. We clearly cannot sustain $1T loans per year on top of the other spending.

The USD has massive inflation or hyper inflation, your and my standard of living nose-dives at breakneck speed.
This is clearly a result of the last 30 years of borrowing and failing to payback. We have to get out of this cycle. So do we do this in the short term and suffer say a decade? Or do we do this slowly and say suffer another 30-40 years. The policies of borrow and spend has virtually ensureed that Gen-Xers will be the first generation to do worse than their parents.

Obama says everything is rosey while the damage continues.
And really this is any different than the Republicans for the last 8 years sold their plan as rosey? Instead they failed to meet the issue and passed it onto the next administration. IMO McCain would have done even worse.

We are in a Depression, period. Obama didn't stop anything, unemployment is worsening under his watch. The real unemployment number is 17.5% (conservative). Liberal tree hugging projects based on fake science and purposeful destruction of the USD will not help anything, unless you think we becoming the next China with sweatshops is a good thing.
If we are in a depression then again thank you Republicans. They failed to meet the problem when they were in charge. The 'real unemployment' number? Yeah wouldn't it have been interesting if Reagan kept with the same formula used for the last century? We'd still be using it today.

Markets are coming back. Stocks are hitting numbers twice as high as earlier this year. Spending this Christmas is projected to be up over last year. People again have savings, something lost under Bush. So, yeah there are bright spots and we all hope they continue. JOBS? They are the last thing to come back. 2009 spending for computing and various IT jobs were up. 2010 looks to be even more. Why? Companies want to ensure they are getting their best ROI. They are planning for the future. So indeed they are bright spots. If the covery is a V or a W is something being discussed now.

'Liberal treehugging projects based on fake science' -- I assume you mean renewable energy. Energy is a problem. Our addiction to oil is bad. Carter projected this concept in the 70s. We'd be in a various different place, IMO better, if we didn't need foreign oil and were self sustainable.

Take the Iraq war fro example. It's projected to cost us $1Trillion and hopefully we'll have access to their oil. (Still a big IF the country cannot sustain itself without our $) The spending from Obama for renewables is far far to little. $150Billion over the next 10 years. This is roughly the amount we spend in 9 months in Iraq for their oil. You tell me what the bette choice is here? If we want to cut spending in the government the military, wars, and loans for past wars is better than 1/2 the spending. Cut this! Do we really need bases across Europe? NO. Focus on internal infrastructure. Protect our industries with traffis and get back to focusing on the US. Our recent history is spend on bullets and bombs. They are a 1 time use project which returns a loss to the nation. Building bridges, infrastructure (things that are crumbling) return positive gains .
 
redrumloa said:
Glaucus said:
Ironically, this doesn't apply when used by simple people.

I love you too Mike :wink:
Sorry, couldn't resist. :-) But seriously, I think the "simple" answer is that the US has serious systemic problems far out of the control of any single person. In other words, there's no simple solution.
 
Before the election I wondered why anyone would want to be running for president. I was thinking the best thing to do was to allow Bush to take a 3rd term. There was no reason that anyone would want to assume captaincy of the Titanic as the stern rises into the air.

This collapse didn't just happen. This has been going on for decades. The American standard of living is an illusion brought on by borrowing. It doesn't take brains to appear wealthy when you don't care about paying off what you put on the credit card. So long as you have the right clothes and the right car and the right house, other people may even think that you ARE wealthy and may treat you as a wealthy person and may cut you deals just to curry favour - but the day you are wining and dining your "friends" and your credit card is declined it breaks the illusion.

Once that happens you have to start living on what you produce rather than what others will lend you. Meanwhile all those watches and jewels you bought for your "friends" aren't about to come back to help you settle accounts.

So here's where we're at. Uncle Sam's card is maxing. Fewer people are willing to accept it, but the bankers (and other private interests) have all the goods.

What needs to be done is to spread the pain. Obviously you can't get much from the people at the bottom that don't have anything but the guys at the top who had the most fun should naturally suffer the biggest hangovers.

So don't blame Obama for the things that were set in play before him. DO blame him for handing out the alka-seltzers to the biggest offenders. (but then again, they did pay for him - so I guess there are certain expectations.)
 
faethor said:
And really this is any different than the Republicans for the last 8 years sold their plan as rosey? Instead they failed to meet the issue and passed it onto the next administration. IMO McCain would have done even worse.

Bush's last ~4 years or so were horrendous and yes he simply "passed the bag" to Obama. Would McCain have done worse? To listen to his campaign nonsense, I'd say he would have been almost as bad or as bad. Worse? That would be hard to do. Obama is pumped things up temporarily on hot air, so maybe you are right in the short term.

So here's where we're at. Uncle Sam's card is maxing. Fewer people are willing to accept it, but the bankers (and other private interests) have all the goods.

That's what really pisses me off. You know how much credit card debt I have? About $100 and that is not a typo. I am lower-middle class and I am getting the pinch something bad. Obama's health care nonsense? Going to penalize me $2,800 a year. My taxes? Going up. Florida's democrats criminal democrats running the county (and Crist) mismanagement has all my bills going up, while quality of life plummets. Both parties are bad, but the democrats are far, far bigger crooks.

Markets are coming back. Stocks are hitting numbers twice as high as earlier this year.

Well not twice as high, but way up off the bottom. That sure is a pisser. Stocks are getting frothy and overvalued. Part of the story is the death throes of the USD. Stocks generally go up as the USD goes down. Stocks tied to commodities are worth more. Stocks ties to products go up as the perception a weak USD will create overseas demand. Still, P/E's are getting stupid high in many cases. I'd be very cautious in the market right now, unless you are a short term trader.

'Liberal treehugging projects based on fake science' -- I assume you mean renewable energy. Energy is a problem. Our addiction to oil is bad. Carter projected this concept in the 70s. We'd be in a various different place, IMO better, if we didn't need foreign oil and were self sustainable.

You are confusing me for someone who is against alternative energy. I am all for it, just for different reasons than the tree-humpers. What I see no value in at all, is padding the bank accounts of charlatans such as Al Gore and the whole carbon credit nonsense, etc. Also giving billions of $$$ to publicly traded companies like FPL (Florida Power & Light, aka Florida Plunder & Loot) to pad their executives' eye rolling bonuses while they do little to no real upgrades boils the blood.
 
http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09 ... legacy.php

Thursday's annual Census Bureau report on income, poverty and access to health care-the Bureau's principal report card on the well-being of average Americans-closes the books on the economic record of George W. Bush.

It's not a record many Republicans are likely to point to with pride.

On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush's two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country's condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton's two terms, often substantially.


The Census' final report card on Bush's record presents an intriguing backdrop to today's economic debate. Bush built his economic strategy around tax cuts, passing large reductions both in 2001 and 2003. Congressional Republicans are insisting that a similar agenda focused on tax cuts offers better prospects of reviving the economy than President Obama's combination of some tax cuts with heavy government spending. But the bleak economic results from Bush's two terms, tarnish, to put it mildly, the idea that tax cuts represent an economic silver bullet.
 
Markets are coming back. Stocks are hitting numbers twice as high as earlier this year. Spending this Christmas is projected to be up over last year. People again have savings, something lost under Bush. So, yeah there are bright spots and we all hope they continue. JOBS? They are the last thing to come back. 2009 spending for computing and various IT jobs were up. 2010 looks to be even more. Why? Companies want to ensure they are getting their best ROI. They are planning for the future. So indeed they are bright spots. If the covery is a V or a W is something being discussed now.

You still feel things are rosey?
 
Well not twice as high, but way up off the bottom. That sure is a pisser. Stocks are getting frothy and overvalued. Part of the story is the death throes of the USD.

Just as expected.
 
ODowngradev2b-600x175.jpg
 
You still feel things are rosey?
Private sector jobs are up. They're off-setting the public sector layoffs. Many companies made some very good profits this year. Compared to most of the world the USA is still one of the best options for one's money. The economy is just as much emotional as it is rational. If people think they'll do worse they constrain their spending and the economy shrinks.

Though I agree we should get tough on the deficit. Obama has the public support now ~72% to raise taxes. Do it. Use the money wisely to make wise investments such as schools and roads. The one real big area to fix is the housing sector. Cut the military spending, reduce US bases within foreign nations, and use some savings to reduce the deficit and some to encourage home buying.
 
Private sector jobs are up. They're off-setting the public sector layoffs. Many companies made some very good profits this year. Compared to most of the world the USA is still one of the best options for one's money. The economy is just as much emotional as it is rational. If people think they'll do worse they constrain their spending and the economy shrinks.

That is because people are now awakening to the fact that we have been slowing being boiled to death, one degree at a time. It wasn't bad when unemployment was around 5%, national debt was under $10T (around 70% GDP), deflation was in effect, and the budget was still well below $3T yet the very poor and seniors were taken care of.

Fast forward it three years, we have massive unemployment (10% in my state), inflation (old CPI rating would put it at 10% but Washington didn't like looking bad so they changed it decades ago to exclude food and energy costs that the little people pay), national debt over $15T and heading to the 20s within 8 years, if not sooner and budgets heading to $4T via baseline budgeting increase of 7.5% annually. That's before Obamacare taxes hit in 2013. US loses it's AAA rating, China and Japan won't buy any more debt, we have had Quantum Easing I, II, and most likely III devaluing the dollar even more and the end of the road is now clearly in sight as is the enslavement of those in school and their children for centuries. Feds are talking about Regressive Economic policy once no one stupid enough to buy US debt (I can't believe the Europeans are buying T-Bills, I though they were smarter then that) which is when the Feds force FDIC banks and funds to buy US debt in order to be receive federal benefit of participating in such programs as FDIC and borrowing from the Fed.

Though I agree we should get tough on the deficit. Obama has the public support now ~72% to raise taxes. Do it.

Well, 71% of DEMOCRATS want to heavily raise taxes. Rest of us know it's the kiss of death to do so in a recession if not entering into a full blown depression. Or do you want me to dig up a video of Obama stating it would be stupid to raise taxes in bad economic times, I think it was just right before Congress voted on keeping the Bush tax cuts in place for another two years? Obama said it less then a year ago.

http://thepartyofknow.com/2011/04/1...era-americans-to-favor-redistributing-wealth/

Use the money wisely to make wise investments such as schools and roads. The one real big area to fix is the housing sector. Cut the military spending, reduce US bases within foreign nations, and use some savings to reduce the deficit and some to encourage home buying.

You don't get it. Yes, we can reduce the number of offshore military bases, there is cross party support for that. No, schools and roads have just had massive spending done to them, remember "shovel ready jobs" bull that was pitched in 09? We got two million people out of work after spending nearly a trillion dollars extra EACH YEAR because it became apart of the baseline budget that is getting 7.5% automatic increase. Let us not double down on stupidity, Keynesian economics is a failure now, it was a failure in the 70s and it was a failure in the 30s. Hasn't worked, not working now, and it won't work in the future. It's time to stop demonizing those with capital and it's time to stop polluting the business environment with regulation and taxation that is making capital and jobs flee to over seas.

In short, Big Government is a FAILURE. There are those who are pushing Big Government because they WANT THE U.S. TO FAIL so they can pick up the pieces and keep a strangle hold on the U.S. for the next century or two while creating the next economic (and probably military) super powers in Asia. Remember Summer of '10 when it was touted as the Summer of Recovery when we were supposed to see 500,000 new jobs created each month? It failed for a reason, government can not create jobs nor wealth, it can only take wealth and redistribute it, typically in a grossly inefficient manner to boot.

Yes we need the housing industry back on it's feet, and the only way to do that is with JOBS! Only way to create jobs is to have business invest and grow the economy. Government can not do it and be successful as we have now pissed away $5T (and counting) in failed economic dogma of Keynesianism with a horrific economy on the brink of total destruction. Good job Obama, I'm sure Soros will reward you well for your highly effective manner of the destruction of America.
 
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