The Man Who Killed Osama bin Laden... Is Screwed

Regardless of what you think of him, it's clear the US military & government don't think much of him.

Btw, I was gonna post that, along with a blurb about Zero Dark Thirty which I recently watched. Pretty good movie I must say. Far better than the Hurt Locker, which I thought was only so-so.
 
Glaucus said:
Regardless of what you think of him, it's clear the US military & government don't think much of him.
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and it isn't really even that... as humans we live by our decisions and die by them as well... and sure we also get treated to a myriad of unintended consequences that we didn't see ( and sometimes couldn't see coming)... sounds like life to me... i served the country honorably too... and i got out of the military before i was eligible for a pension too... he knew what it meant and so did i... no more paycheck... get a job... hes eligible for education benefits that could end his struggle the minute he decides on a school (some are getting up to 5 grand a month to cover expenses)... he's obviously got some personal health problems that occurred during service that might entitle him to be be medically discharged retro actively and therefore entitle him to a pension, or he could just outright apply for service connected pension through VA. he's shot that many people, i'm plenty sure a ptsd case could be easily made, that's a full pension from VA. I know he wanted to return a conquering hero, rather than be pushed into obscurity but lets face it, he'll have a target on his back for life. everyone around will wonder if they'll be standing next to him as some idiot strapped with dynamite and yelling "Allah Akbar(sp)" arrives to seek revenge.
 
I understand there are no surprises there. However, I do find it interesting that no politician hesitates to declare their support for the troops, and yet, I have yet to see any of them actually back that up. It's one thing to serve 20+ years in peace time and quite another risking your life and limb in combat. And these Navy Seals seem to always be in combat and hence seem to deserve much more. I think the government knows that these guys are tough as nails and have too much pride to ask for what some in the government condescendingly call a "hand out", even though they earned it many times over.
 
The Founders were worried about creating a Warrior Class that was above the Citizens in the nation. They didn't want that to happen. Jefferson, Madison argued against a Standing Army. That's why the 2nd amendment was compromised to start with the important but often over looked statement about ' A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state' -- This is in there so we as Citizens can defend against external invasions and not need a standing army.

If we wanted to follow the Founders we'd not be giving the ex-military benefits that the regular citizens are denied.

... And of course being that 1/2 of the discressionary spending goes to the Military yet neither party is willing to step forward and cut that.
 
Glaucus said:
I understand there are no surprises there. However, I do find it interesting that no politician hesitates to declare their support for the troops, and yet, I have yet to see any of them actually back that up. It's one thing to serve 20+ years in peace time and quite another risking your life and limb in combat. And these Navy Seals seem to always be in combat and hence seem to deserve much more. I think the government knows that these guys are tough as nails and have too much pride to ask for what some in the government condescendingly call a "hand out", even though they earned it many times over.
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yeah... well this is the first i heard of it... and that was a few days ago... if he wanted to get a politician involved he could have went to them instead of a journalist... set up a paypal account and i'm sure his coffers will be filled by the gratitude of millions of americans... my brother is just not trying... you know the last time he had his heart broke he did something that impacted the world... maybe he should follow his impetuous nature and see what happens....


faethor said:
The Founders were worried about creating a Warrior Class that was above the Citizens in the nation. They didn't want that to happen. Jefferson, Madison argued against a Standing Army. That's why the 2nd amendment was compromised to start with the important but often over looked statement about ' A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state' -- This is in there so we as Citizens can defend against external invasions and not need a standing army.

If we wanted to follow the Founders we'd not be giving the ex-military benefits that the regular citizens are denied.

... And of course being that 1/2 of the discressionary spending goes to the Military yet neither party is willing to step forward and cut that.
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and that sounds like a grand idea until you think about it... multi-million dollar aircraft, tanks, battleships and all the other accoutrements needed to carry out modern day warfare can not be manned by a part time military, itd be sweet if it worked that way but it doesn't, sadly. and who here among us wants some joe bob with the nuclear codes? we can hardly bear the "intelligent men" who rule us having them... as for not creating a military class of heroes who get extra benefits, well; that's a joke right? washington was a general catapulted to the presidency... petraeus was being groomed for a presidential run and set up for a fall behind the scenes, we've a whole national history of electing warrior presidents...eisenhower? but... and there always is a big one... remember waaaay back after the civil war? people were literally walking over the diseased, dismembered, dying carcasses of veterans of that war, and were; rightfully so, disgusted by such men of (intended) noble deed, laying about in the streets. that we care for them better now is an "homage" to our better angels and as such i am unsure of how much they receive can be considered "extra benefit"... that being said and set, i have publicly stated on here numerous times my belief that all should have socialized healthcare... same as i... and by virtue of your having an american birth certificate alone, you are covered. and yeah... 1/2 of budget is military... but it isnt the VA's budget... chronically underfunded and always a good place to pinch for budget cuts... while an army of new beneficiaries come home... do more with less... it is the way of the warrior...
 
robert l. bentham said:
everyone around will wonder if they'll be standing next to him as some idiot strapped with dynamite and yelling "Allah Akbar(sp)" arrives to seek revenge.
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I really don't think that "Al-Qaeda" would waste an operative on such a small value target. There might be a sympathizer who would do it, I suppose, but far better to just shoot the guy or firebomb his home than waste an asset in the US.
 
Glaucus said:
I think the government knows that these guys are tough as nails and have too much pride to ask for what some in the government condescendingly call a "hand out", even though they earned it many times over.
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Balls. The "government" knows that by the time they get into their late thirties they are either waking up or "questioning" their lives and/or their physical conditioning is going. They are basically of no further use and there are new young impressionable men to use instead. Old SEALs are to the government as old wives with cancer are to Newt Gingrich.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
I really don't think that "Al-Qaeda" would waste an operative on such a small value target. There might be a sympathizer who would do it, I suppose, but far better to just shoot the guy or firebomb his home than waste an asset in the US.
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i do not agree with your assessment... i believe the "assassin" of the great jihadi leader bin laden would be of as much "value" to the next wave as bin laden was to seal team six... he said he was repeating bush's words in his head to the point of clearly "hearing" bush's voice... one mans war on terror is another mans jihad...
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Balls. The "government" knows that by the time they get into their late thirties they are either waking up or "questioning" their lives and/or their physical conditioning is going. They are basically of no further use and there are new young impressionable men to use instead. Old SEALs are to the government as old wives with cancer are to Newt Gingrich.
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fawkin ouch with the gingrich slam... but damn... well said... hahahahaha :D (i would like that twice if i could)
 
it isnt just old seals tho'... it's anybody who has an issue... i'll never forget what i told colonial barr that day has he was explaining that having spent what they did on training me they would like to keep me and why i had i not already signed my re up papers..."i can no longer condone or enforce the foreign policies of my government" ...and it ruined things from thereon... this fella can ruin his life or embrace what he's got... in the end itll be up to him...
 
robert l. bentham said:
and that sounds like a grand idea until you think about it... multi-million dollar aircraft, tanks, battleships and all the other accoutrements needed to carry out modern day warfare can not be manned by a part time military,
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Which is the point - it would make it very difficult to invade other people without all of that equipment. Defending yourself is a different matter altogether.

As to nuclear weapons, what are they good for? Threat. You use them to moderate the actions of rivals when you invade their allies and impact their business interests. They are like the gun that points at your head while a gang rapes your wife.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Balls. The "government" knows that by the time they get into their late thirties they are either waking up or "questioning" their lives and/or their physical conditioning is going. They are basically of no further use and there are new young impressionable men to use instead. Old SEALs are to the government as old wives with cancer are to Newt Gingrich.
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Ya, well, old timer commandos exist only in video games. Albeit, good video games, but games just the same.

old-snake.jpg


Youth is a requirement for combat and for various reasons. That in and off itself isn't the problem.

Faether raises a good point about not building a warrior class. I can understand that. But warriors exist and it's naive to think that they could not. My point was to highlight the contrast between all the political BS that we hear from politicians about supporting the troops and what little is done for them. Fluffy is right that they are seen as expendable commodities.
 
robert l. bentham said:
i do not agree with your assessment... i believe the "assassin" of the great jihadi leader bin laden would be of as much "value" to the next wave as bin laden was to seal team six...
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I wouldn't waste a man on him. The US has more military than it really knows what to do with so sending a bunch of guys to get a more or less neutralized old mujahedin could seem like a relatively cost effective PR stunt to an American politician, as well as a "We can get you at great expense if you are a 'leader' of resistance" type message. Suicide bombers are a rare commodity - you can tell by just how few suicide bombers have been operating in the US during 12 years of overt war with the Muslim world. If you want to send a message back then you don't go for the errand boy who did the job but the guy who sent him. Just because he fired the gun doesn't make him the target, it just marks him as a peon who didn't have the sense or power to stay at home and let or make someone else do the job.

On the other hand, there is political hay to be made.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Which is the point - it would make it very difficult to invade other people without all of that equipment. Defending yourself is a different matter altogether.

As to nuclear weapons, what are they good for? Threat. You use them to moderate the actions of rivals when you invade their allies and impact their business interests. They are like the gun that points at your head while a gang rapes your wife.
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the 2nd navy; in this country, was built to protect merchant ships. it was our first "standing military" by most accounts ... its been about business from the get go since then... the coast guard of the high seas if you will... same duty with different definitions as to what defines threat to the nation....
 
Glaucus said:
Ya, well, old timer commandos exist only in video games. Albeit, good video games, but games just the same.

old-snake.jpg


Youth is a requirement for combat and for various reasons. That in and off itself isn't the problem.

Faether raises a good point about not building a warrior class. I can understand that. But warriors exist and it's naive to think that they could not. My point was to highlight the contrast between all the political BS that we hear from politicians about supporting the troops and what little is done for them. Fluffy is right that they are seen as expendable commodities.
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and i would argue that it is a good thing, it creates a sense of futility and finality in the veterans head which in some cases lead to drastic and dire consequence but by and large as a whole has solidified a well trained body of men whom have remained so to fight the good fight as it were... because ur government would treat all militias as hate groups and terrorists remember this one binding thing... in the homes of those dead (terrorist) men they always find copies of the constitution... try getting one at the courthouse...
 
whats the duty of a man to help a murderer? if he were the hillside strangler we'd not be discussing his "care" at all. that he killed in the name of uncle sugar makes him no less than a man whose principals allow him to think that at some points in life, violence of the utmost and extreme order can and should be called for, based on the decisions of smarter or more knowing men than he... geez... shouldn't we cull a fawker like that from the herd? that kinda says zero respect for humanity right there doesn't it? i dunno... i'm just asking... it's what got me in trouble with the army... always bentham with his loudmouth sayin" yeah we could do that, but should we?"... he's a rough road to hoe on the trail to redemption... that much i know for sure...
 
robert l. bentham said:
and that sounds like a grand idea until you think about it... multi-million dollar aircraft, tanks, battleships and all the other accoutrements needed to carry out modern day warfare can not be manned by a part time military, itd be sweet if it worked that way but it doesn't, sadly. and who here among us wants some joe bob with the nuclear codes? we can hardly bear the "intelligent men" who rule us having them... as for not creating a military class of heroes who get extra benefits, well; that's a joke right? washington was a general catapulted to the presidency... petraeus was being groomed for a presidential run and set up for a fall behind the scenes, we've a whole national history of electing warrior presidents...eisenhower? but... and there always is a big one... remember waaaay back after the civil war? people were literally walking over the diseased, dismembered, dying carcasses of veterans of that war, and were; rightfully so, disgusted by such men of (intended) noble deed, laying about in the streets. that we care for them better now is an "homage" to our better angels and as such i am unsure of how much they receive can be considered "extra benefit"... that being said and set, i have publicly stated on here numerous times my belief that all should have socialized healthcare... same as i... and by virtue of your having an american birth certificate alone, you are covered. and yeah... 1/2 of budget is military... but it isnt the VA's budget... chronically underfunded and always a good place to pinch for budget cuts... while an army of new beneficiaries come home... do more with less... it is the way of the warrior...
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I should be clear my post was more about what was thought about that at the origination of the nation. Which may, or may not be a personal view of how I'd like it to work today. So more to my focused on my view.

First, I think the 2nd amendment defenders are missing the boat. They readily neglect the first half of the 2nd amendment. The existence of a standing army has a detrimental effect on the 2nd amendment as that 'militia' no longer exists. Overthrowing one's own government really wasn't a serious consideration for debate. There's a couple of footnotes at best about that. And if you're one that think your AK-47 is going to save you from the tanks, RPGs, nuclear, chemical and biological weapons the gov could throw at you, you're more emotional than rational about this question.

As to the military I think in the modern era we couldn't get along without a military. It does impact the VA because the care of our soldiers is something appear to want to commit to as a society. Cutting the military budget means hiring less soldiers and therefore we see less need for the VA Budget. Perhaps they can use the same money more wisely if they had less people to worry about. And while politicians decry the 'gov run healthcare' for the population they say exactly jackshit about that same benefit for our military. If it's really as awful as they say wouldn't their first step be trash the VA and give our vets better care? The fact of the matter is the VA is often ranked as one of the best medical care areas in our nation. Gov Healthcare seemingly works for our vets. As you say we all should be so lucky to have socialized healthcare that's less expensive and better than our other options.

The US Military is too huge, period. We spend half, yes folks half, of the worlds military Budget. Out of the next 10 closest nations in spending, they're all our friends. This is the military industrial craziness that Eisenhower warned us about. Someone in the US Military is dying or getting hurt in a wartime activity for the last 74 years. Peace, my ass, this is expensive sanitized world military conquest. It may not be intended, but it is the result.
 
Old SEALs are to the government as old wives with cancer are to Newt Gingrich.
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I'm just GOING to HAVE to steal that. :D
 
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