This is why there should be photo IDs required to vote

sure are a lot of republicans committing acts of fraud these days.... in order to show us how easy it is for them to commit acts of fraud... can't wait until they start hacking voting machines... ;)
 
robert l. bentham said:
sure are a lot of republicans committing acts of fraud these days.... in order to show us how easy it is for them to commit acts of fraud... can't wait until they start hacking voting machines... ;)
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Glad to see you are now supporting a photo ID requirement for voting!
 
Dammy said:
Glad to see you are now supporting a photo ID requirement for voting!
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only for republicans... they seem to be prone to committing acts of fraud... that oqueef feller misrepresented himself so many times he shouldn't be allowed to vote ever again....
 
robert l. bentham said:
only for republicans... they seem to be prone to committing acts of fraud... that oqueef feller misrepresented himself so many times he shouldn't be allowed to vote ever again....
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Now you can't be discriminating against political parties, no matter how badly you want to do it as a Progressive.
 
@Dammy,
Alas the same crap as before. It is ILLEGAL to misidentify yourself and to sign a name that is not yours. What is demonstrated here is the possiblity of fraud exists. Now we actually acknowledge that and have laws that make it illegal. What is not demonstrated here is that it happened.

I encourage those that believe fraud is happening to identify true fraud. It should be easy - compare death roles to voting roles and see where someone dead voted. What are the numbers?

Voting is never going to be 100% perfect. What I look at is do we get a smaller error. Minnesota with same day registration - about 20% don't vote and about .0015% were fraudulent. Or do we get results of States that are very restrictive, tend to be in the South and tend to be about 40-50% of people don't vote. Any non-cast ballot is one of error. Any vote not cast is a voter's intention we don't know. Way more error in those restrictive States. Do we want a system that discourages voting and creates a larger error? NO!
 
faethor said:
@Dammy,
Alas the same crap as before. It is ILLEGAL to misidentify yourself and to sign a name that is not yours. What is demonstrated here is the possiblity of fraud exists. Now we actually acknowledge that and have laws that make it illegal. What is not demonstrated here is that it happened.

I encourage those that believe fraud is happening to identify true fraud. It should be easy - compare death roles to voting roles and see where someone dead voted. What are the numbers?

Voting is never going to be 100% perfect. What I look at is do we get a smaller error. Minnesota with same day registration - about 20% don't vote and about .0015% were fraudulent. Or do we get results of States that are very restrictive, tend to be in the South and tend to be about 40-50% of people don't vote. Any non-cast ballot is one of error. Any vote not cast is a voter's intention we don't know. Way more error in those restrictive States. Do we want a system that discourages voting and creates a larger error? NO!
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Problem is we really don't know how large the voter fraud issue is as only the case (which could have numerous individuals involved in voter fraud case) that has enough evidence to seek a grand jury on will show up on statistics. Well known voter fraud areas, which the politicians and political party in power are benefiting from the fraud will raise hell about any type of ID being used since it will hurt them in the elections. I'm not really sure how you are linking lower voter turn out with the new photo ID laws unless there is a clear drop in that state's numbers after the laws were enacted that conflict with national average trends.

One does have to wonder why someone would be put off from voting because they have to show a photo ID. Poor people have IDs, other wise (in many states) they could not file for welfare. OTOH, people like me want the poll workers to ask for ID because I do not want someone else taking my vote away. My right to vote should be protected in this manner.
 
Perhaps the solution is to make it mandatory for everyone to vote. Obviously there would be a need for some exceptions like medical reasons or out of the country etc. Spoiled ballots would still be allowed of course, but everyone who can, should go to the polls.
 
Glaucus said:
Perhaps the solution is to make it mandatory for everyone to vote. Obviously there would be a need for some exceptions like medical reasons or out of the country etc. Spoiled ballots would still be allowed of course, but everyone who can, should go to the polls.
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I think the better solution is ask for a reasonable form of ID and let the process continue with those who want to participate. Another alternative, though it will not protect individuals from voter fraud, is to use the inked finger scheme.
 
Glaucus said:
Perhaps the solution is to make it mandatory for everyone to vote. Obviously there would be a need for some exceptions like medical reasons or out of the country etc. Spoiled ballots would still be allowed of course, but everyone who can, should go to the polls.
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in NY your name is on the list. when you come to vote you give your name they check the list and when they find it, you sign in (on the official list) . Then you go vote.

sometimes I get a postcard with the date and purpose of the vote. (in case there are issues up for a vote and not just people).

if somebody dies all anyone has to do is look up the dates of the records and cross off any votes made after the death.

of course, maybe in other parts of the country people are not as efficient conducting this process.
 
the only way needing a photo ID as a requirement to voting would be fair is if everyone who votes get their ID BEFORE it becomes a legal requirement.
 
Dammy said:
Problem is we really don't know how large the voter fraud issue is as only the case (which could have numerous individuals involved in voter fraud case) that has enough evidence to seek a grand jury on will show up on statistics.
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The Republican response to 'we don't know' appears is one of fear, doubt, and a response for more government regulation and control. Republicans have only demonstrated potential. Not actual fraud. And our system already has illegalized the actual fraud. Certainly there is more accurate work that could be done if this issue was cared about more then the Republicans desire to further regulate and futher complicate and grow government.

As for the video I see it as a strong point against the Republican demands. Here we have someone that was going to vote as Eric Holder. Yet I cannot think of a time that any elected or appointed offical stepped forward and said 'I can't vote because someone filled in my name'. I'd think further evidence on how this isn't happening and the actual fraud is much less than the Republicans would sell us with their campaign of FUD.

Next election I challenge you to find actual fraud. Next election compare death certificates to the voter polls. How many dead people voted? THIS would be interesting.

'
I'm not really sure how you are linking lower voter turn out with the new photo ID laws unless there is a clear drop in that state's numbers after the laws were enacted that conflict with national average trends.
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States with Voter-IDs are on the bottom of the % of cast votes. States with same-day voter registration at the top of voting turn outs. We democratically elect our representatives. To know the 'will of the people' we must turn out the most accurate vote. When 1/2 the population isn't voting we should question why that is and how do we encourage voting.

One does have to wonder why someone would be put off from voting because they have to show a photo ID.
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One doesn't have to wonder as much as simply look at the voter turn out and see there's something substantially worse in those states that have more restrictive voting laws.

Take a good recent example - Wisconsin. They want smaller government. So, they closed down stations that provide government IDs. This makes it more difficult for people to get and renew IDs. Then they tried to require someone to have an ID. This clearly added hardship.

As for your thought that Welfare needs an idea. It certainly does. What you'll find surprising is not all poor people are on Welfare and therefore don't all need an ID for that purpose. Some are simply too proud to walk through that door.
 
Dammy said:
Another alternative, though it will not protect individuals from voter fraud, is to use the inked finger scheme.
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The inked finger is great - that way you can just spread a rumour (or maybe more than a rumour) that any black or hispanic caught with an inky finger is gonna get a beating.


Photo ID is also great for keeping people away from the polls but also good for adding voters if you have the money or influence to create thousands of IDs for non existent or for dead people. Fake IDs in significant numbers are beyond the means of the underclasses but quite within reach of campaigns that have significant money or the right kinds of people embedded in the civil service in charge of ID - the right kind of people can get as many as the want and the wrong kind can't get any.

Best way to do elections is to keep ridings/districts down to low numbers - as many as will fit in a big room/church/gymnasium etc and to run the polls for an hour - the same hour across the country - an hour in which everyone votes and the vote is counted in front of everyone and then the vote is publicly posted in front of everyone. Once that's done then anyone that was present could verify the publicly posted numbers and anyone who could do arithmetic could sum the posted numbers.
 
:finger:
Dammy said:
Now you can't be discriminating against political parties, no matter how badly you want to do it as a Progressive.
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uhm actually.... it's republicans pushing for this... in an attempt, like always, to disenfranchise voters after you guys spent primary season alienating the voter... lying sacks of shit...
 
faethor said:
States with Voter-IDs are on the bottom of the % of cast votes. States with same-day voter registration at the top of voting turn outs. We democratically elect our representatives. To know the 'will of the people' we must turn out the most accurate vote. When 1/2 the population isn't voting we should question why that is and how do we encourage voting.

One doesn't have to wonder as much as simply look at the voter turn out and see there's something substantially worse in those states that have more restrictive voting laws.

Take a good recent example - Wisconsin. They want smaller government. So, they closed down stations that provide government IDs. This makes it more difficult for people to get and renew IDs. Then they tried to require someone to have an ID. This clearly added hardship.

As for your thought that Welfare needs an idea. It certainly does. What you'll find surprising is not all poor people are on Welfare and therefore don't all need an ID for that purpose. Some are simply too proud to walk through that door.
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Can you show us a statistical drop in number of voters, outside the national trend, once the voter ID laws went into effect? I highly doubt you can. Problem for you all, the people in the state are happy with their laws else the individual state legislatures would be changing it in the face of voter backlash.

Also, those who are poor and who qualified for welfare but refused to register for welfare, how many of those who do not have a photo ID (that you need to buy cigs, booze, cough medicine, ammo, or to get medical attention)? Pick any state.
 
Dammy said:
Problem for you all, the people in the state are happy with their laws else the individual state legislatures would be changing it in the face of voter backlash.
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People that can't vote don't participate in voter backlashes.
 
Dammy said:
Also, those who are poor and who qualified for welfare but refused to register for welfare, how many of those who do not have a photo ID (that you need to buy cigs, booze, cough medicine, ammo, or to get medical attention)? Pick any state.
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Poll Taxes are illegal. Current IDs, at least in Minnesota, are not free. They need to comply with law so using Driver's License or other existing cards we must reduce the fee to $0. Or if another card is used that is a whole new system to put into place along with the list of cards to generate. I thought Republicans were against the government largess. Yet seemingly you want to increase the the government spending with no guarantee of improvements?

You are the one that told us we don't know how much actual fraud is going on. So instead of figuring that out and using a semi-resonable cost benefit analysis you want unbridled government spending increases with no proven return on investments? Wow. You need to turn in your 'conservative' card.
 
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