FluffyMcDeath said:
Glaucus said:
When your body is fighting an invader, it can go into a mode where it goes ballistic, attacking itself. This however is usually reserved for special cases where nothing else works and things are desperate.
Nah. It's mostly just because of the way the human body (all bodies for that matter) tend to only work well within fairly narrow parameters. It's like when you have drunk dangerously large amounts of water you get thirsty - or when you are freezing to death you feel hot and strip off.
The immune system is prone to occasional overreaction. Anaphylactic shock can result not because peanut butter is a deadly threat that warrants a desperate response but because it just happens to provoke such a response in certain people. H5N1 and H1N1 can provoke cytokine storms in healthy young people simply because they have healthy vigorous immune systems. The 1918 flu had a similar mortality profile to seasonal flu at the young and old ends of the spectrum but had anomalously high mortality for people in their mid twenties. The response was lethally strong because mid twenty-somethings have the strongest immune systems.
I think we're talking about the same thing here, I just gave you the Coles notes version. I would just like to change the last sentence to:
This however is usually reserved for special cases where the body thinks nothing else works and thinks things are desperate. And you're right, it can also be triggered by false alarms. A much more mild example is any form of allergic reaction, which is also a case where the body attacks itself, but is a far more metered response then the cytokine storms which pretty much mobilize your entire immune system.
Interestingly I have read that there was anecdotal that people who worked in cinnamon factories tended to have lower death rates. Cinnamon seems to be a cytokine moderator so there might be something to that.
They're also developing (or maybe using?) drugs that limit the cytokine storms, yet at the same time allow your immune system to defeat the invader.
Even there isolation would keep disease within houses rather than spreading between houses.
Ya, that's gonna happen. Sure, i agree with you, if we isolated everyone, the virus would be stopped dead in it's tracks. And if people just stopped {bleep} around HIV would be wiped out too. Just not gonna happen. Realistically HIV will be wiped out when only one of two things happen: They create a vaccine and administer it to all moderate to high risk people, OR create a cheap and effective cure. Until then, it will plague mankind. Luckily for us h1n1 is not on the same scale and most people can defeat it on their own - and I think that's the only reason people are considering not taking the vaccine. But it's a lottery really, no one really knows how they'll fare until they have it. If it were h5n1 going around you'd be absolutely insane not to take the vaccine.
However, Native communities have a whole host of problems regarding resources, health and social problems.There could be intrinsic genetic factors that make Natives more susceptible to H1N1 or it could be secondary effects like the fact that modern high carb diets are more likely to cause diabetes among people whose immediate ancestors were still eating a more wild diet.
That's a big what if, and even if you're correct, that's just a stronger argument for vaccination as there's almost zero chance that they'd change their lifestyle.
By the way, it seems that in the UK there are a bunch of ignorant Luddites who aren't too keen on taking the vaccine. They are
otherwise known as GPs.
Interesting. I haven't talked to my sis about this, I wonder if she'll take it. Considering she's been immunized before she may be open to the idea. Plus she'll be right on the front line with h1n1 as her unit will be the one dealing with the sickest of patients. She's seen first hand how bad it can be, so chances are that will motivate her to get it.
The interesting thing about GPs is that those not infected could actually infect those who are healthy. It's a known fact that hospitals are a great place to pick up a bug, doctors and nurses refusing to take that shot aren't helping this. I hope my Dr takes the shot.
The thing about h1n1 is that it didn't seem so bad. Sure some people died, and although more then the typical flu, nothing too alarming. But the first round was expected to be much milder then the second which we're expecting. If we didn't have our high tech medical system many more would have died, so we can't compare numbers to 1918 without correcting for that (and I've never seen numbers that do). The thing is, our medical system can easily be overrun with h1n1 patients. Here in Winnipeg the PICU has only 12 beds, I think TO has somewhere around 20 - 30 and Vancouver may have as many as 20 but i suspect less. In the first round we maxed out in wpg. Sure we're planning for this and I'd be surprised if more equipment and rooms were not allocated, but I know for a fact that the PICU staff here in Wpg has remained the same (which is not good as they're actually short a Dr). So I do have my personal doubts about how well we can cope with a massive influx of severe h1n1 patients, which means the death rate could go up real fast. If you do get h1h1, be sure to be one of the first so you'll get first crack at a high frequency oscillatory respirator or an ecmo machine.
It's a sad day when Fluffy uses Harper's words and actions to support an argument.... :mrgreen:
