Tolerance of Athiests??

[metalman]

He's suspected of posting arguments in favor of atheism on the Internet

"He should be burned to death," "to be an example to others,"

 

[the_leander]

He's suspected of posting arguments in favor of atheism on the Internet

"He should be burned to death," "to be an example to others,"

Yeah I've seen that.

This is your worth when living in a theocracy. Apparently however this message isn't getting through to some folk.

There is a petition for this fella online, I'll see if I can find it. I don't suppose it'll help much, but it can't hurt.

--edit--

Here is the petition.

 

[Glaucus]

Unfortunately this is what happens when a scociety is oppressed for so long, everyone goes super conservative especially with religion as at this point it's their only hope of defeating their enemy. It's also why Greeks are so religious compared to most other European nations, the memories of Turkish occupation is still fresh in the mindset. It's also why I think the push back against muslim immigrants is likely to be felt hardest in Greece as when they see Islam all they think about is oppression and losing their land. You can't oppress people and not expect consequences at some point. Americans should take careful note of that.

 

[cecilia]

yes, I saw this and of course am reminded of the kooks in this country who just don't understand the Brilliance of the Bill of Rights.

anytime politics gets meshed with religion you get situations where oppression is the norm.

 

[metalman]

It's also why Greeks are so religious compared to most other European nations, the memories of Turkish occupation is still fresh in the mindset. It's also why I think the push back against muslim immigrants is likely to be felt hardest in Greece as when they see Islam all they think about is oppression and losing their land. You can't oppress people and not expect consequences at some point. Americans should take careful note of that.

Don't you think it has more to do with how the Muslim's have historically treated minorities?

Memory of the Hellenistic/Assyerian/Armenian genocide between 1914 and 1920 might have something to do with current Greek push back against Muslim Immigrants.

If you were a minority religion (including Athiest, no religion, or polythiest) , where would you choose to live as a minority, under Greek Orthodox or Islam?

Religion is about social conformity, and morality. What different religions teach about how non-believers are to be treated is an important difference between religions.

Most religions consider building shrines, temples, churches important symbolism, but what else do they consider it important to build? Catholics have had a long history of building schools, Universities, and Hospitals everywhere they settled. Many Protestant faiths founded Universities. Islam founded many Universities. Christrians have a long history of charitable work among non-believers.

Don't think there have been any great Universities founded by Atheists, and an Atheist charity is an oxymoron.

 

[metalman]

yes, I saw this and of course am reminded of the kooks in this country who just don't understand the Brilliance of the Bill of Rights.

anytime politics gets meshed with religion you get situations where oppression is the norm.

The Bill of Rights prohibits the establishment of a state run religion, e.g. "The Church of England" It does not prohibit the religious from entering government service.

 

[the_leander]

yes, I saw this and of course am reminded of the kooks in this country who just don't understand the Brilliance of the Bill of Rights.

anytime politics gets meshed with religion you get situations where oppression is the norm.

The Bill of Rights prohibits the establishment of a state run religion, e.g. "The Church of England" It does not prohibit the religious from entering government service.

It also (in principle at least) forbids the requirement of belonging to a given religious sect in order to stand for office.

Separation of church and state is a good thing.

 

[cecilia]

yes, I saw this and of course am reminded of the kooks in this country who just don't understand the Brilliance of the Bill of Rights.

anytime politics gets meshed with religion you get situations where oppression is the norm.

The Bill of Rights prohibits the establishment of a state run religion, e.g. "The Church of England" It does not prohibit the religious from entering government service.

It also (in principle at least) forbids the requirement of belonging to a given religious sect in order to stand for office.

Separation of church and state is a good thing.

many people (Americans) seem to miss the entire point. which is that religion - or the lack of it - is PERSONAL and the government should have no say.

this concept is so subtle and so delicious I guess i shouldn't be surprised at how few people really appreciate it.

instead of just living their lives some people desperately need their feelings to be justified by others - in particular the government. How sad for them. they seem to suffer from low self esteem.

 

[Glaucus]

Don't you think it has more to do with how the Muslim's have historically treated minorities?

Well, not all muslims treat minorities the same way. Iraq under Saddam and modern day Jordan were/are fairly accepting of the Christian minorities. Saudi Arabia is of course not so accepting, but they are a strict theocracy, they have a long list of backwards rules and laws.

Memory of the Hellenistic/Assyerian/Armenian genocide between 1914 and 1920 might have something to do with current Greek push back against Muslim Immigrants.

Well of course it does. Not sure if I mentioned this here before but my grand parents on my father's side were refugees from Smyrna. There were more recent events like the Istanbul Pogrom of 1955, the invasion of Cyprus and even the current low altitude military overflights of Greek islands and main land as well as Turkey's continued support for FYROMs relentless pursuit of Greece's identity theft. But mostly it's the 400 year Ottoman occupation where significant efforts were made to wipe out the native Christian religion and convert everyone to Islam. With such an objective it should be no surprise that Greeks instead rallied around the Orthodox religion which was also a clear sign of defiance to the occupiers. And to this day Orthodox Christianity is still seen as a sign of freedom and Islam symbolizes nothing but oppression. But that's more of a nationalistic thing then about the quality of either religion.

If you were a minority religion (including Athiest, no religion, or polythiest) , where would you choose to live as a minority, under Greek Orthodox or Islam?

Obviously I'd want to live in a secular state. Today it just so happens that most Christian nations are secular but it wasn't always that way.

Christrians have a long history of charitable work among non-believers.

They also have a bad reputation of attempting to convert everyone they show charity to, and even to withhold charity in some cases if they refuse to convert. There's a reason why they're not allowed in some countries.

Don't think there have been any great Universities founded by Atheists, and an Atheist charity is an oxymoron.

Not sure about Universities but it wouldn't surprise me as atheists just don't organize well and thus also don't pool huge sums of cash. And really, until recently, have always been a small minority, although ironically many atheists teach at universities. As for charities, again, is there a need for an atheist charity? There are already plenty of charities dating back decades or centuries. Atheists do however contribute. Still, there is the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation that as far as I can see is secular. Warren Buffet contributed heavily to the foundation and he considers himself agnostic.

 

[the_leander]

A small list of Atheist Charities.

Universities... University of Portugal, at Coimbra, is the oldest secular university in the western hemisphere. Founded in 1290.

I believe Cornell was also founded by either Agnostics or Atheists.

 

[cecilia]

A small list of Atheist Charities.

Universities... University of Portugal, at Coimbra, is the oldest secular university in the western hemisphere. Founded in 1290.

I believe Cornell was also founded by either Agnostics or Atheists.

well, lookie dat!!

people caring about others JUST because they are human beings. and not 'guilt-ed' into throwing money in a dish so they won't go to 'hell'

let's hear it for Atheists

 

[faethor]

Religion is about social conformity, and morality. What different religions teach about how non-believers are to be treated is an important difference between religions.

Many Eastern religions have a live and let live attitude. The Western religions, and I'll speak of Christianity as I have more knowledge there, has spent a significant amount of time discriminating against and killing other religious peoples and the non-religious alike. This river runs deep even amongst different types of Christians. The USA was founded by religious persecutions of 1 group against another group. Today we see Evengelical Christians attempting to convert other Christians because those other 'Christians' are clearly the wrong type.

Christrians have a long history of charitable work among non-believers.

Though even this is often met with discrimination. Christian charitable organizations tend to favor christians. Or are purposed to convert others to Christianity. Mother Theresa didn't give some people antibotics even though they were likely to get better. Why? Because they were going to God anyway. A more extreme but good illustration of how this 'charity' does bad. All too frequently the 'charity' diminishes or removes the individuals' right to self determination.

Don't think there have been any great Universities founded by Atheists, and an Atheist charity is an oxymoron.

University of Virginia was founded by an Agnostic and it is pretty well up the great scale. Atheist giving to charities is less than Christians. IMO the largest reason is the Atheist isn't asked at the weekly gathering for money. There are two things going on there. First, the Atheist must seek out their own charties as they aren't handed to them on a silver platter. Second, because there isn't weekly, or even more frequent events, involving group thought and peer presssure they make the decision more on their own accord.

 

[metalman]

A small list of Atheist Charities.

Universities... University of Portugal, at Coimbra, is the oldest secular university in the western hemisphere. Founded in 1290.

I believe Cornell was also founded by either Agnostics or Atheists.

The University of Coimbra was founded, or ratified, in 1290 by King Dinis and supported by the abbots of the Monasteries of Alcobaça, Santa Cruz of Coimbra, and S. Vicente of Lisbon, and by the superiors of 24 churches and convents of Portugal. The Papal confirmation was given in 1290 during the Papacy of the Pope Nicholas IV permitting that all Faculties, with the exception of Theology, could be established.

Cornell University was founded on April 27, 1865 as the result of a New York State Senate bill that named the university as the state's land grant institution.


The Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey (SCCBS) (data collected by in 2000 by researchers at universities throughout the United States and the Roper Center for Public Opinion Research):

The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.

they're giving to more than their churches," he says. "The religious Americans are more likely to give to every kind of cause and charity, including explicitly non-religious charities.

 

[metalman]

A small list of Atheist Charities.

well, lookie dat!!
people caring about others JUST because they are human beings. and not 'guilt-ed' into throwing money in a dish so they won't go to 'hell'
let's hear it for Atheists

I'm a proud atheist.
my money stays in my pocket :mrgreen:

Therefore: atheists who give money, are not proud atheists

 

[the_leander]

Therefore: atheists who give money, are not proud atheists

You really can't help yourself, can you?

 

[cecilia]

Therefore: atheists who give money, are not proud atheists

You really can't help yourself, can you?

no, he can't.
SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

let's not tell him that those are two ENTIRELY different situations having nothing in common. :mrgreen: