Welcome to 1984: targeting thought crimes..

Wayne

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Last week, Michelle Obama made headlines when she exhorted graduating high schoolers in a commencement address to monitor their families for politically incorrect thoughts and behaviors.

To one journalist, this was more than an off-hand comment made by the first lady. In the opinion of Cheryl Chumley, a reporter for The Washington Times and the author of “Police State USA,” Michelle Obama’s remark reflects a growing trend in America to target and attack individuals for committing “thought crime.”

So it begins. Fashionably late as always, we bring you Orwell's 1984 in it's truest fashion, Her Majesty, Queen Obama cautioned high schoolers to "monitor their families for politically incorrect thoughts and behaviors."

Original article: http://news.yahoo.com/america-starting-target-thought-crime-015023317.html

Separately, this morning I was in the kitchen at work making the morning drink when CNN had "experts" on live air talking about the "virgin killer" thing last week. Said experts were openly espousing changing Federal and local laws to allow the police to consider writings and saying things as "actionable to detain people deemed mentally unstable"...

Guess we'd better just close up shop now peoples, as it's clear we're all to be considered radical, politically unacceptable, and clinically unstable for our mere thoughts expressed on this site.

Wayne
 
1984?
Well, perhaps there is a tenuous parallel to be drawn.

On the other hand, there's a lot more stuff, which has been going on for a lot longer, which is a lot more worrying from a '1984' perspective than this, comparatively trivial nonsense.
 
“There’s no court case against believing in stereotypes or thinking that certain kinds of hateful jokes or comments are funny. So the answers to many of our challenges today can’t necessarily be found in our laws,” Obama said. “As you go forth, when you encounter folks who still hold the old prejudices because they’ve only been around folks like themselves, when you meet folks who think they know all the answers because they’ve never heard any other viewpoints, it’s up to you to help them see things differently.”

“Maybe that starts simply in your own family, when grandpa tells that off-colored joke at Thanksgiving, or you’ve got an aunt talks about ‘those people’. Well, you can politely inform them that they’re talking about your friends,” Obama continued. “Because this issue is so sensitive, is so complicated, so bound up with a painful history. And we need your generation to help us break through. We need all of you to ask the hard questions and have the honest conversations, because that is the only way we will heal the wounds of the past and move forward to a better future.”
Well said. People who think this is criminalizing thoughts have shit for brains.
 
I don't believe I said "criminalizing". Maybe I did. Who knows? I've slept since then, but telling people to "monitor" someone's thoughts then "challenge them" is always very much like the first step towards making something illegal. First, you make something politically incorrect, then you term it offensive, then you play on the minds of the liberal douchebags (not all liberals btw, just the "feelies") to press their bought-and-paid-for representatives to pass laws.

It's the politically correct police gone mad... In other words, "1984 realized".

Wayne
 
It's the politically correct police gone mad... In other words, "1984 realized".

Wayne

Now would be a good time to call you a "conspiracy theorist" so as to dicredit you and your position with having to make a cogent counter-argument.
 
Now would be a good time to call you a "conspiracy theorist" so as to dicredit you and your position with having to make a cogent counter-argument.
Nah, not really. It's not a conspiracy if it's being done in plain view, over, and over, and over again...
 
I don't believe I said "criminalizing". Maybe I did. Who knows?
Well, a thought crime in the context of 1984 is exactly that, criminalized thought. You can't post sensationalized stuff like that and then back track once you're called on it. The fact is it is not "thought crime" and nothing at all to do with the 1984 novel in any way, so why reference it?

I've slept since then, but telling people to "monitor" someone's thoughts then "challenge them" is always very much like the first step towards making something illegal.
Well again, we're incapable of monitoring thoughts. Michelle Obama said that we should challenge people who make racist remarks. Totally a different thing. And she's right. I know you've fallen out of favor with Obama, but this attack is BS.

First, you make something politically incorrect, then you term it offensive, then you play on the minds of the liberal douchebags (not all liberals btw, just the "feelies") to press their bought-and-paid-for representatives to pass laws.
And that ladies and gentlemen is what's called a slippery slope. The fact is making racially loaded remarks is a bad thing and it should be challenged. I fully support what Michelle Obama said. The next time someone refers to porch monkeys you should inform them that it's not an acceptable term. If you don't, you're as bad as they are.
 
Outside of movies, and even considering there I grew up, I've never heard anyone call anyone a "porch monkey"...

It's 2014 and most people should be intelligent enough to see racism for what it truly is.... Blatant ignorant stupidity.

That being said, I find just as much offense at blacks playing the race card as I do anyone else...

The Obamas -- as should any Presidential couple -- should ALWAYS be race neutral, but they spend more time tripping over and playing the race card than any other First Couple I history...

I find it offensive and demeaning to them..

Don't care who disagrees.

Wayne
 
Nah, not really. It's not a conspiracy if it's being done in plain view, over, and over, and over again...
I was actually just being sarcastic. "Conspiracy theorist" is just a way of dismissing someone without having to argue against them. It doesn't matter if the thing they are talking about happens out in the open again and again. Say "conspiracy theorist" automatically means that whatever they talking about is a) a lie, b) obviously harmless because everybody knows, c)a state secret for their safety and the talker is a traitor and needs to "man up" and face the music.
 
the talker is a traitor and needs to "man up" and face the music.

One might have hoped that Kerry, having gone through the Swift Boat nonsense, would have the self respect not to play man instead of the ball.

Alas, no.
 
Outside of movies, and even considering there I grew up, I've never heard anyone call anyone a "porch monkey"...

It's 2014 and most people should be intelligent enough to see racism for what it truly is.... Blatant ignorant stupidity.
Agreed. The thing is racists still exist. Since we both agree that racism is a bad thing, what's wrong with challenging it when it rears it's ugly head?

That being said, I find just as much offense at blacks playing the race card as I do anyone else...
A person of any race can be racist, but here you kinda sound like someone who seems to think racism is in the past, like there are no longer victims of racism. Racism might not be as systemic as it once was, but it's still there and it's quite possible you don't really notice it in all it's forms. This is true not only for differences in race but also when it comes to sexism as well.

The Obamas -- as should any Presidential couple -- should ALWAYS be race neutral, but they spend more time tripping over and playing the race card than any other First Couple I history...
I think this is a major problem for some people. They think that for two races to be treated equally one must completely ignore that the races exist. But that's ridiculous. What's important is that they are treated equally while at the same time accepting the differences. In the US blacks suffered systemic abuse and poverty, you can't just ease up on the abuse and expect them to suddenly become white Americans with a permanent tan. I think Donald Sterling alone proves that race is still a big issue in the US and all you're doing is trivializing it.
 
Agreed. The thing is racists still exist. Since we both agree that racism is a bad thing, what's wrong with challenging it when it rears it's ugly head?
Racism, and racists still exist, but those are deep wounds (at least in the US) and will eventually scar over and die off IF PEOPLE STOP PICKING AT THE WOUNDS...

The problem as I see it is that continually playing the racism card is essentially like stoking a proverbial fire. If you understand that racism equals stupidity, you can simply think someone's a dumbass and move on. If you "challenge" their viewpoints, you change nothing. A person raised with racist viewpoints may become more tolerant of others but will NEVER be swayed from the mental virus that is racism...

On the other hand, if you just view racists as idiots and ignore them, eventually their voices become lower and they die off like unfed fish in a fish tank.

A person of any race can be racist, but here you kinda sound like someone who seems to think racism is in the past, like there are no longer victims of racism.

Not at all. Not for a single second would I be naive enough to believe that ignorant people no longer exist on this planet. I just have a very sore spot for people who continually make their lives about "being" white or "being" black. I figure that my own complexion might be considered white, but I'm an American, just like the other xyz million people in this country, and that's the end of it.

The struggles I go through are -- by and large in a sweeping generalization kinda way -- the same problems that every other person in this country has. I've seen both blacks and whites be discriminated against based on "equal opportunity" quotas, and under no circumstances do I believe that's -- in any way -- "ok"...

I think this is a major problem for some people. They think that for two races to be treated equally one must completely ignore that the races exist. But that's ridiculous. What's important is that they are treated equally while at the same time accepting the differences.

I can agree, and disagree with this concept on different levels. There are far more than two races in America, and each person of each race faces challenges all their own. I agree with treating everyone equally, which is what I was trying to actually get at in the first place..

(but this site is burdened with those who just LOVE to debate every turn of phrase -- which is one specific reason why we don't get new users)
You can however accept the social and cultural differences between different people without having to bend over backwards to extend compensatory privileges in any way. Right now, the system is broken, and I'm just waiting on America to start honoring holidays for special interest groups in the name of "equality".

In the US blacks suffered systemic abuse and poverty, you can't just ease up on the abuse and expect them to suddenly become white Americans with a permanent tan. I think Donald Sterling alone proves that race is still a big issue in the US and all you're doing is trivializing it.

Wow. OK. Way to close a reply there, by comparing me to a racist... 'Nuff said I guess.

(For the record, I don't expect ANYONE to become a "white American". I simply think that in 2014, (151 years after the Emancipation Proclamation) it's time to look past the most horrific time in American history... It's time for everyone -- of all races -- to stop believing they are somehow owed anything in this life, let alone a free ride because of the color of their skin...)

Like most threads here, I'm going to now bow out of this one because it occurs to me that we on this site tend to be a little rabid about our various subjects. Even though my heart is in the right place, I truly feel like there's nothing I could possibly write here in words which wouldn't subsequently be torn apart, twisted, disassembled, then frankenstein'ed to use against me.

Racism is (and racists are) stupid. Get over them. Move on. End of point.

Wayne
 
Well that sucks Wayne, I was hoping to get you back as a regular contributor. :(

But I would like to address one point:
Wow. OK. Way to close a reply there, by comparing me to a racist... 'Nuff said I guess.
No, I wasn't comparing you to a racist, nor do I consider you to be one. I think your heart is in the right place but perhaps don't fully empathize with the situation some people are in. What I was saying about Sterling is that racists exist, they still cause pain and there's no reason we should not talk about it. Interestingly, if you listen to Sterling's taped conversation his wife (or is it ex-wife?) actually did challenge his racist remarks. I don't see why she shouldn't have.
 
I'll see your not-quite-thought-crime and raise you bona fide secret trial:
Two men, known only as AB and CD, have been charged with terrorism; journalists were forbidden from disclosing even this simple fact until newspapers overturned a gagging order. But for the first time in centuries – and in a direct challenge to the Magna Carta of 1215 – the entire trial will be held in secrecy.


http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/jun/05/britain-first-secret-trial-rights
 
Stumbled upon this by accident while doing a search. Just want to point out, Wayne was correct and a major reason why Trump won. The US was indeed moving towards jailing people for wrong thoughts.

Refuse to accept our pseudo-science as religion? Off to prison with you for that wrong think!

Bill Nye, the science guy, is open to criminal charges and jail time for climate change dissenters

It wasn't just the fake scientist who is not a scientist though, this went all the way up to the top.

US Attorney General: We’ve ‘Discussed’ Prosecuting Climate Change Deniers


“This matter has been discussed. We have received information about it and have referred it to the FBI to consider whether or not it meets the criteria for which we could take action on,” said Attorney General Loretta Lynch, responding to a question from green activist Sen Sheldon Whitehouse at a Senate Judiciary Hearing.

This would have been just the beginning of course, all wrong thought would get someone imprisoned. Don't think your 10 year old daughter should be forced to change in a school locker room and see penises? Off to jail with you! Don't think white supremacy is real in current year ? To Guantanamo Bay with you!
 
Stumbled upon this by accident while doing a search. Just want to point out, Wayne was correct and a major reason why Trump won. The US was indeed moving towards jailing people for wrong thoughts.
No, it was not. As Glaucus had pointed out, there is no way to monitor someone's thoughts.

Refuse to accept our pseudo-science as religion? Off to prison with you for that wrong think!

Bill Nye, the science guy, is open to criminal charges and jail time for climate change dissenters
In the provided quotes, he specifically referenced individuals who were convicted of fraud and named Enron and the tobacco industry as examples. The article provides no proof for your thesis that Bill Nye wants people to be jailed for mere disagreements.

US Attorney General: We’ve ‘Discussed’ Prosecuting Climate Change Deniers

“This matter has been discussed. We have received information about it and have referred it to the FBI to consider whether or not it meets the criteria for which we could take action on,” said Attorney General Loretta Lynch, responding to a question from green activist Sen Sheldon Whitehouse at a Senate Judiciary Hearing
She was specifically commenting on whether the fossil fuel industry could be legally charged if they engaged in similar fraudulent tactics to the ones the tobacco industry used for many years. If it can be conclusively proven, which happens rarely, that a company had, in fact, overwhelming evidence that its products were harmful but decided to lie in public about it to protect profit margins, this is flatout fraudulent behaviour and deserves to be prosecuted.

I fail to see how anybody could possibly disagree with this, especially people in a camp who is known to frequently yammer on about "upholding the law of the land", etc.

Again, nobody discussed throwing people in jail for having genuine differences of opinion.

This would have been just the beginning of course, all wrong thought would get someone imprisoned. Don't think your 10 year old daughter should be forced to change in a school locker room and see penises? Off to jail with you! Don't think white supremacy is real in current year ? To Guantanamo Bay with you!
?
 
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