GM files bankruptcy monday

redrumloa

redrumloa

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redrumloa said:
I was furious when the republican turned socialist George W Bush was sending billions in bailout money the automakers, flushing money down the crapper. It was just delaying the inevitable.
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The bailout should have been a buy out - that way at least the public could gain from stripping the assets and selling off the parts. But, of course, the point was to try to have the important investors get a good chunk of their money back before the bankruptcy.
 
It is offical, GM files BK.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/General-M ... et=&ccode=

Very, very sad.

FluffyMcDeath said:
The bailout should have been a buy out - that way at least the public could gain from stripping the assets and selling off the parts. But, of course, the point was to try to have the important investors get a good chunk of their money back before the bankruptcy.
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Well supposedly "the US taxpayers" are getting 60% of the company, as if that would be a good thing. Once obama is doining away with all contract law, bankruptcy laws and the constitution itself, the UAW is the only one who will make out like bandits, literally. This failed business model will be on the taxpayers dime forever and it will get worse. Little old ladies and school teachers retirement funds get wiped out, every day people's 401Ks get corn-holed while UAW fat cats get fatter. :roll:


Welcome to the USA.

United Socialist States
 
Obama's "Evil Speculators":

http://alhambrainvestments.com/blog/200 ... eculators/

gm-speculator.jpg


General Motors Corp. is trying to get bondholders to agree to a debt swap deal. Debra June, a substitute teacher from Stuart, Fla., is an example of why the offer is proving to be a tough sell.

Six years ago Ms. June invested $70,000 in GM bonds, thinking they were a safe bet. But under under the offering GM unveiled two weeks ago, all she would get is some stock worth about $280, according to her own estimate.

“I’m just going to take the bonds and hang them up in my living room. They’re more valuable as wallpaper,” the 52-year-old Ms. June quipped recently while flipping through a 200-page booklet GM sent to bondholders outlining what they could expect in the debt exchange.
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Don't forget little old ladies, plenty of them getting the shaft.
 
redrumloa said:
the UAW is the only one who will make out like bandits, literally.[...] Little old ladies and school teachers retirement funds get wiped out, every day people's 401Ks get corn-holed while UAW fat cats get fatter. :roll:
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That's such a ... stupid statement. The UAW pensions are getting wiped out just as badly as the little old ladies and Debra June. The company negotiated with the workers to provide them those benefits and then they raided the funds they were supposed to have invested to boost their numbers so the top executives could give themselves bigger bonuses while all the time making stupid decisions to produce cars no-one wanted. It comes from the top, Red. That's where the bandits are and they've already left with the money. The workers who are regular folk just like all the the regular folks you talk about and they are getting wiped out.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
That's such a ... stupid statement. The UAW pensions are getting wiped out just as badly as the little old ladies and Debra June. The company negotiated with the workers to provide them those benefits and then they raided the funds they were supposed to have invested to boost their numbers so the top executives could give themselves bigger bonuses while all the time making stupid decisions to produce cars no-one wanted. It comes from the top, Red. That's where the bandits are and they've already left with the money. The workers who are regular folk just like all the the regular folks you talk about and they are getting wiped out.
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In bankruptcy court contracts are null and void, UAW simply has a contract that is supposed to be voided. In bankruptcy court bond holders are supposed to be first in line for relief, that is the law. Or at least that WAS the law before Obama's thugs went after large bond holders and threatened them. I don't know how ANYONE could agree with throwing away laws, the whole reason buy bonds over stocks are the leverage they have over the underlying company. That was Unites States law, which I guess is just a few lines in a history book now.
 
redrumloa said:
Welcome to the USA.

United Socialist States
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Don't confuse socialism with communism. It's with Communism where some pigs are more equal than others.
 
Speelgoedmannetje said:
redrumloa said:
Welcome to the USA.

United Socialist States
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Don't confuse socialism with communism. It's with Communism where some pigs are more equal than others.
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I used the term socialism because the C word would get me flamed ;-)
 
redrumloa said:
I was furious when the republican turned socialist George W Bush was sending billions in bailout money the automakers, flushing money down the crapper. It was just delaying the inevitable.
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Though we see Cheney now in a rare moment of honesty.

“I thought that, eventually, the right outcome was going to be bankruptcy,” Cheney said of the company during the second part of interview with Fox News’ Greta Van Susteren that aired Tuesday night
...
Cheney said that rather than acting on GM, the Bush administration “put together a package that tided GM over until the new administration had a chance to look at it.”

He said had the bankrupcy happen at the end of the Bush term he didn't want Obama to have to handle the crisis immediately and could have a bit of time to settle in first. Ahh what a caring Dick.
 
GM has sold a controlling share of Vauxhall-Opel to aCanadian-led consortium.

It's an "interesting" move. Vauxhall-Opel was GM's only division that develops the kind of appealing small efficient cars that Obama keeps talking about. GM is now left with Daewoo to supply its small cars, like the aging Aveo.
 
At least they don't have to change the GM marque

Government Motors seems somehow apt.
 
smithy said:
GM has sold a controlling share of Vauxhall-Opel to aCanadian-led consortium.

It's an "interesting" move. Vauxhall-Opel was GM's only division that develops the kind of appealing small efficient cars that Obama keeps talking about. GM is now left with Daewoo to supply its small cars, like the aging Aveo.
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Supposedly GM has sold Saturn to Penske Motors. They had quite a few Opels. It appears GM is still going to build them for Penske and they seek other manufactures? Hmm...

Don't forget GM does have a stake in NUMMI. It's the joint venture with Toyota. They've sold a GM version of the Corolla in the past. Currently GM sells a version of the Matrix called the Vibe. My understanding is while a 50/50 joint venture about 80% of the plant is devoted to Toyota manufacturing. I'd venture a guess that they might be able to add bring this back to a 50/50 split without very much investment.

If we look at the US government's GM take over we see the USA owning an additional .2% of industry. Hardly a run for the hills Socialists are coming event. Which Obama was punted by the Bushits because they didn't have the balls to deal with their problems on their watch.
 
faethor said:
Supposedly GM has sold Saturn to Penske Motors. They had quite a few Opels. It appears GM is still going to build them for Penske and they seek other manufactures? Hmm...
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Surprisingly, Saturn only sells 1 Opel; the Astra. The Aura looks like a Vectra but they have nothing in common beyond appearance. The Vue and Sky are Korean and American respectively, but they are sold as rebadged Opels in Europe.

Reading around, Penske will sell the current GM Saturn models until they organise replacements from elsewhere. It'll almost certainly be Chinese or Korean cars on license. A bit like what Rover did with Honda models. The collapse of GM and Chrysler has opened the door for more foreign competition.

If we look at the US government's GM take over we see the USA owning an additional .2% of industry. Hardly a run for the hills Socialists are coming event. Which Obama was punted by the Bushits because they didn't have the balls to deal with their problems on their watch.
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Indeed. What's also interesting is the howls of protest from free-marketeers when the government gets involved in business. But there is total silence when foreign soverign wealth funds (i.e. state owned foreign companies) have been buying up or taking large stakes in so many western companies (quite often strategic assets too) at bargain basement prices.
 
smithy said:
Surprisingly, Saturn only sells 1 Opel; the Astra. The Aura looks like a Vectra but they have nothing in common beyond appearance. The Vue and Sky are Korean and American respectively, but they are sold as rebadged Opels in Europe.
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Isn't the Saturn Sky related to the Opel GT? Also the thought the Ion for 2010 was to become the Opel Astra?

It'll almost certainly be Chinese or Korean cars on license. A bit like what Rover did with Honda models. The collapse of GM and Chrysler has opened the door for more foreign competition.
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Ah yes. Triumph Acclaim was a Honda Ballade which become the Rover 200.


[quote:1bmoq0k1] If we look at the US government's GM take over we see the USA owning an additional .2% of industry. Hardly a run for the hills Socialists are coming event. Which Obama was punted by the Bushits because they didn't have the balls to deal with their problems on their watch.
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Indeed. What's also interesting is the howls of protest from free-marketeers when the government gets involved in business. But there is total silence when foreign soverign wealth funds (i.e. state owned foreign companies) have been buying up or taking large stakes in so many western companies (quite often strategic assets too) at bargain basement prices.[/quote:1bmoq0k1] It appears we're prefectly fine with other governments owning companies in the USA just not our own government. LINK
 
faethor said:
Isn't the Saturn Sky related to the Opel GT? Also the thought the Ion for 2010 was to become the Opel Astra?
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Yes, the Opel GT and Sky (and Solstice) are the same car. Designed by GM in the USA, Opel imported it to replace the Speedster (itself a rebadged Lotus Elise). Because there was no RHD version, Vauxhall never brought to the UK. Shame, because it's a great looking car.

I don't know what the plans are for a new Ion. The rumoured Insignia coupe might have been a good fit. The current Astra is being replaced in September with a new model (check out the 5-door version: http://www.astra-and-Action.co.uk), also engineered by Opel. There are rumours that Buick will get this this new Astra in 2010, also imported from Europe. If they repeat the same mistakes as Saturn, and only make available models with limited trims, options and engines for too a high a price then they'll it be another failure.

It appears we're prefectly fine with other governments owning companies in the USA just not our own government. LINK
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Good article.
 
smithy said:
I don't know what the plans are for a new Ion. The rumoured Insignia coupe might have been a good fit. The current Astra is being replaced in September with a new model (check out the 5-door version: http://www.astra-and-Action.co.uk), also engineered by Opel. There are rumours that Buick will get this this new Astra in 2010, also imported from Europe. If they repeat the same mistakes as Saturn, and only make available models with limited trims, options and engines for too a high a price then they'll it be another failure.
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Saturn was to be a 'different car company'. The marque never turned a profit for GM. The only thing it succeeded with, and even that is marginal, is reducing Honda and Toyota sales. As Saturn was unprofitable GM scrapped the 'different' idea and it become another GM clone.
 
faethor said:
smithy said:
I don't know what the plans are for a new Ion. The rumoured Insignia coupe might have been a good fit. The current Astra is being replaced in September with a new model (check out the 5-door version: http://www.astra-and-Action.co.uk), also engineered by Opel. There are rumours that Buick will get this this new Astra in 2010, also imported from Europe. If they repeat the same mistakes as Saturn, and only make available models with limited trims, options and engines for too a high a price then they'll it be another failure.
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Saturn was to be a 'different car company'. The marque never turned a profit for GM. The only thing it succeeded with, and even that is marginal, is reducing Honda and Toyota sales. As Saturn was unprofitable GM scrapped the 'different' idea and it become another GM clone.
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The clone problem is interesting. Everyone thinks it's because there are too many brands, but actually I think the problem is down to Chevrolet. They've allowed it to creep into the entire niches previously occupied by Pontiac, GMC and Saturn, thus ending up with a load of brands offering almost the same cars rebadged.
 
Go figure. Saturn makes a car I'd actually buy and they scrap the whole line. The SKY is a wicked looking little car. Not really for my climate region though, I'd probably go with the Hyundai Genesis coup instead.
 
smithy said:
The clone problem is interesting. Everyone thinks it's because there are too many brands, but actually I think the problem is down to Chevrolet. They've allowed it to creep into the entire niches previously occupied by Pontiac, GMC and Saturn, thus ending up with a load of brands offering almost the same cars rebadged.
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Volkswagen has 8 brands as far as I remember. (Seat, Skoda, Volkwagen, Audi, Bentley, Bugatti, Lamborghini, and 1 more I believe.) So, having many brands does not have to be a problem per se. Likewise, Seat, Skoda, Audi and Volkswagen offer many models that are more or less identical from a technical perspective (i.e. 'rebadged' versions of the same cars), yet appear to be successful in doing so.

Regarding Chevrolet, do they label cheap Asian cars as Chevrolets in the US like they do in Europe? I always found it disturbing that they just replaced the Daewoo brand with Chevrolet.
 
@JoBBo
Regarding Chevrolet, do they label cheap Asian cars as Chevrolets in the US like they do in Europe? I always found it disturbing that they just replaced the Daewoo brand with Chevrolet.
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Yup. Chevy Aveo is a Daewoo.

@Glaucus
I'd probably go with the Hyundai Genesis coup instead.
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The Genesis Coup is a nice looking car, but may I ask why you'd choose that over the new Camaro v6? It might be interesting to hear why GM missed your theoretical sale.
 
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