Wrestling (not Sports Entertainment), did you like it?

redrumloa

redrumloa

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Did you used to like watching wrestling? I don't mean the modern product you see on TV for the last ~30 years which is officially "Sports Entertainment", I mean back when Wrestling was Wrestling as an actual regulated sport. It was deregulated as a sport after February 10 1989, when Vince McMahon killed Kayfabe (*) for good by actually admitted matches were predetermined. So my question doesn't include the likes of "The Rock", "Stone Cold Steve Austin", "The Attitude Era" or even "The Monday Night Wars". I'm speaking of the old school prior to February 10 1989.

I'm mainly talking about the territory days. Many, many rival promotions and not much TV coverage. Suspicion was out there that it wasn't completely on the level, but fans largely bought in as if it were real. Wrestlers who by and large were independent contractors who's gimmick usually was just an exaggeration of their true personality. An era where Kayfabe (*) was protected at all costs. A time where babyface good guys and heel bad guys were not allowed to travel together or even be seen together. An era where most wrestlers were legit badasses, freaks of nature, or circus freaks.

That era died in 1989 and the product has died a slow death since then. Today in 2018 I don't think the product is even worth mentioning usually. It is pure garbage for the most part. I did like a lot of wrestling from the old school growing up though. Even now I like going back and watching matches from before I was born even. Just curious if anyone else like "wrestling" as I've defined, not the "Sports Entertainment" it has become.

(*)
kay·fabe
ˈkāˌfāb/
noun
  1. (in professional wrestling) the fact or convention of presenting staged performances as genuine or authentic.
    "a masterful job of blending kayfabe and reality"
 
Back then one could be forgiven for buying into wrestling being real. Kayfabe was protected at all costs. Some deliberate, some not quite as deliberate but with the same results.


 
This was the kind of "wrestling" that was on TV in the UK when I was a kid in the 70s:

I enjoyed it but by the time I was six or seven, I knew it was scripted and wanting someone to win became meaningless. After that the enjoyment came purely from watching the outlandish moves and pantomime of "good guy v bad guy".

The only wrestling I'm aware of that I would consider to be a genuine sport is the amateur variety that you see at the Olympics and such.
 
As a matter of fact i have been watching a lot of fighting such as mma and others. There is a lot of good fighting out there if you are prepared to look for it.

I think the best thing that can happen to wrestling is the same thing that happened to ti-chi where a ti-chi master was challenged by a professional fighter and exposed as a fraud. There needs to be a calling out of fake fighters and fighting styles. I invite you to see this as an opportunity to discover new and better fighting as opposed to those dancing wrestlers you have been watching.

 
Robert said:
This was the kind of "wrestling" that was on TV in the UK when I was a kid in the 70s:

I enjoyed it but by the time I was six or seven, I knew it was scripted and wanting someone to win became meaningless. After that the enjoyment came purely from watching the outlandish moves and pantomime of "good guy v bad guy".

The only wrestling I'm aware of that I would consider to be a genuine sport is the amateur variety that you see at the Olympics and such.
Click to expand...

Interesting video. I've at least heard of Giant Haystacks, but never heard of Big Daddy. I've never seen wrestling from old British territories, or any from out of the US actually. Growing up in South Florida I was limited to WWWF (Later WWF) and a few NWA territories. The NWA territories from memory were Championship Wrestling from Florida, WCCW (Dallas Texas) and Georgia Championship Wrestling. Back then pretty much all territories were associated with the NWA (National Wrestling Alliance). WWWF/WWF were originally an "outlaw territory", and did not have the best talent for the most part, but I digress. As mentioned wrestling at this time was full regulated and taxed as a sport. Each territory had a commissioner they had to deal with and actual rules they had to follow. If a wrestler actually cheated like the heels usually did, they could be fined or (rarely) suspended. In that clip above where David Schultz legit slapped John Stossel, it was the commissioner who suspended Schultz.

The reason I kind of went into detail about the history over here in the US is to show how things were structured and why many did believe it was real, while the majority had an idea it wasn't completely legit but would suspend reality. I'm speaking only of the NWA territories here, By the time WWWF became WWF they were already going in the goofy cartoon direction. Back in the NWA territory days the popularity in the US made it by far and away the most popular sport in the country. The pool of talent they had to draw from to crown champions was huge. They only put the belts on people who were legit "shooters", meaning they were rock solid amateur Greco-Roman wrestlers turned pro. Being pro meant you had the amateur skills but also pro "stretching" skills that was not allowed in amateur. They did this because other wrestlers very often would not want to "do the job". That's what made it so believable. You never knew when the switch flipped and it was a true "shoot".

Keeping up kayfabe was as mentioned was taken extremely seriously. If they were in the ring with someone not respecting this, they would beat them down bad. If they were out in public and someone called them fake, they would beat them down. Promoters would very often make wrestler vs boxer matches and the wrestler would always win. These were usually done under a boxing commission so the wrestling promotion would send one of the best shooters, and the boxer had no chance. Early in his career Rick Rude would go with his girlfriend to bars and have her sit at the bar while he would stay off to the side. He'd wait for someone to start talking to his girlfriend and he'd go up and challenge them. He'd do this until some guy refused to back down and he'd beat the crap out of him. In the very early days wrestlers would challenge people in the crowd and also would make them give up by stretching them. Wrestling grew out of old circus strong man shows. To keep kayfabe outside the ring they would stay in character whenever in public. That meant heels would be assholes in public as needed. This often put them in danger with people who truly believed it was real.

For in the ring, someone like Lou Thesz is not the person you would have wanted to deal with. Thesz could break a limb in a minute if he wanted to. That could be said about almost any of the top stars through about the mid 80s, but the alphas among alphas were the ones who got the belt. These people were either legit skilled, genetic freaks, sideshow attractions, or some mix of those 3 traits. Also in the ring while the finish was usually predetermined, the punches and "bumps" they took were usually quite real. While normally not trying to kill each other, to make it look real punches were often "throwing potatoes". But mainly things went off script so t speak often enough that at worst you'd think "wrestling may be scripted, but those 2 guys want to kill each other".

I miss the old school. Nobody is going to confuse today's "sports entertainment" product as real.
 
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Kesa said:
I think the best thing that can happen to wrestling is the same thing that happened to ti-chi where a ti-chi master was challenged by a professional fighter and exposed as a fraud.
Click to expand...

The problem is, "Pro Wrestling" is long dead now. There is only WWE which is admitted as nothing more than entertainment. They have such a thumb on their roster that they groom everyone from training on up. They only go for looks and acting skills now, not for technical ability. I doubt there are many, if any, modern wrestlers who would do anything other embarrass themselves in MMA. There are only 2 modern era wrestlers I know of that started in wrestling and moved to MMA. One embarrassed himself (CM Punk), while the other actually won the Championship on his first run. Brock Lesnar is nearing retirement age now, so he's probably the last example of someone able to make the move.

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If MMA were around earlier I think you would have seen more crossover. I could rattle off names of old school wrestlers who would dominate in MMA. Since there was no MMA back then, they did those boxing vs wrestler matches and the wrestler always dominated.

Basically, MMA filled the void left behind when "Pro Wrestling" ceased to be wrestling in 1989. The tough guys who would have been wrestlers in the old days became MMA fighters in the modern era.
 
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redrumloa said:
Interesting video. I've at least heard of Giant Haystacks, but never heard of Big Daddy.
Click to expand...

In a mildly spooky coincidence, from today's Guardian:
Big Daddy – the reboot: the welcome return of the World of Sport Wrestling
The classic British wrestling show is being relaunched – giving fans old and new the chance to scream once again at big, hairy men in pants

World of Sport Wrestling’s stars Big Daddy and Giant Haystacks clash.
Take the Technicolor storytelling of a comic book and combine it with the aerobic elegance of the Cirque du Soleil. Then inject the drama of an EastEnders Christmas special or the high-energy camp of a panto and cram it all into a sweaty lycra singlet for your nan to scream at. Such a heady combo is akin to the idiosyncratic brilliance of British wrestling at its finest.

This week ITV confirmed that World of Sport Wrestling (WoSW) is coming back to the channel for a 10-part series, three decades since the end of its original run. For 20 years, wrestling beamed into the living rooms and went head to head with the BBC, “engaging in a David and Goliath Saturday afternoon battle with Grandstand”. While World of Sport showcased other (arguably more legitimate) competitive endeavours during its Saturday show, it was the 4pm wrestling that really captured the imagination of its audience.

In its prime, it drew millions of fans, from small children cheering for the babyfaces to OAPs shaking fists at the heels. It brought people together, and gave them the opportunity to get behind something innocent, eccentric and unmistakably British.
 
Robert said:
In a mildly spooky coincidence, from today's Guardian:
Big Daddy – the reboot: the welcome return of the World of Sport Wrestling
The classic British wrestling show is being relaunched – giving fans old and new the chance to scream once again at big, hairy men in pants
Click to expand...

Funny timing. I fear it will have the same issues as I'm complaining about above.
 
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