You can't say that in Government

FluffyMcDeath

FluffyMcDeath

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But you can say it when you leave. And Jack Straw just said that Israel, has “a most extensive nuclear weapons capability” and is “stealing the land of the Palestinians”.

Transcript and audio here.
 
I wish Israel would just be honest about this issue as their dishonesty is more damning than an outright admission of a nuclear program. I imagine the reason they can't come out and admit it is because then they'd need to also explain how they got them and with which US President's help and the US government would need to do some more explaining of it's own. But that's just all officially, unofficially we already know the answers to those questions so it's kinda moot.

And yes, they are stealing land but I'm sure they could nit-pick on that: can you really steal the land that you already occupy? Probably not the best defense though.
 
Glaucus said:
And yes, they are stealing land but I'm sure they could nit-pick on that: can you really steal the land that you already occupy? Probably not the best defense though.
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Yes. Ask a library if you can steal one of their books if it's already at your home.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Yes. Ask a library if you can steal one of their books if it's already at your home.
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Poor analogy. The library willingly lends out it's books to people, those who never return them are thieves. Palestinians never lent out their land, it was stolen to begin with. And that was my point, their land is already stolen. But I believe Jack Straw was referring to the settlements being built on occupied land. It's more like stealing something and then burring it in your backyard under concrete - it's still stolen but very much harder to ever get back.

Anyway, I think we're on the same page here so why, um... nitpick? :D
 
Glaucus said:
Anyway, I think we're on the same page here so why, um... nitpick? :D
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Because it's ME! (we seem to be lacking a "mwa ha ha ha!" smiley).
I guess most people don't know or care what occupation is under international law (and many people don't realize that Israel is the internationally recognized occupier of the occupied lands) but under international law it's pretty cut and dried. Occupation is temporary and you can't just move your people into the occupied land. The trick is to get enough Israelis in there so that at some point they can say - hey, look, it's mostly our guys in there and they want to be part of Israel. They're trying to create a sort of Israeli Sudetenland.
 
True, however I think most Greeks would argue that occupation can be permanent, at least in practice if not in theory. Unless you think one day Turkey will return Constantinople back to Greece. Most Greeks would be happy with just getting the Elgin Marbles back, but that's unlikely. If only the NAZIs stole those instead.... :(
 
Glaucus said:
Most Greeks would be happy with just getting the Elgin Marbles back, but that's unlikely. If only the NAZIs stole those instead.... :(
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Pfft. Good luck with that. The Brits nicked half of the ancient world and shipped it back to London.
Thing that really gets me is that the Parthenon was built about a half a millennium BC and was more or less intact for about 2000 years and then it got mostly blown up in a war. Need an ammo dump? Why not use a priceless ancient monument? If not for that it would probably be still intact to this day.
Luckily there's a spare.

I guess the Colosseum in Rome would be pretty intact today too if the popes hadn't stripped the marble to make fancy statues for themselves.
 
Glaucus said:
I wish Israel would just be honest about this issue as their dishonesty is more damning than an outright admission of a nuclear program.
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Damning in what way and in whose eyes?
From where I'm sitting their refusal to acknowledge the existence of their well-known nuclear arsenal is a trifling, almost negligible matter when compared to the whole gamut of other horrible stuff they've been responsible for over the last several decades.
 
Oh, and just for the record, whilst Jack Straw's comments may well be true and even welcome, he's still an insidious, horrible, murderous, little c*nt who should be behind bars.
 
Glaucus said:
True, however I think most Greeks would argue that occupation can be permanent, at least in practice if not in theory.
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Of course it can be permanent. And it's not just Greeks. Look no further than your own country. The aboriginal "Canadians" didn't send out a telegram looking for immigrants.

Is that any less of an occupation than the blagging of the Elgin marbles?
Perhaps.
Perhaps not.

You could also argue that, for a substantial number of Palestinian people the occupation already is permanent.
 
Robert said:
Damning in what way and in whose eyes?
From where I'm sitting their refusal to acknowledge the existence of their well-known nuclear arsenal is a trifling, almost negligible matter when compared to the whole gamut of other horrible stuff they've been responsible for over the last several decades.
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I didn't say that was the worst thing Israel ever did Robert. I meant that in the context with their on going dispute with Iran over Iran's nuclear weapon program. They claim Iran is telling fibs about their nuclear program, but so is Israel. If Israel at least came clean they could still accuse Iran of fibbing and not look totally hypocritical.
 
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