10 years on and they are just sooo liberated.

Something I suspected from the start but had no real evidence to back it up. But now there is.

ISIS’s Secret Allies

The standoff in Iraq isn’t between a single militant group and the government. There is a broad coalition of Sunni groups—both nationalist and Islamist—who had been plotting against Iraq’s Shia government for years before ISIS's rise provided the chance to strike. ISIS and its partners are unnatural allies. Maintaining their unity was the key to their early success, and is the only way they can hold the ground they have taken, but that incentive may prove to be weaker than the force of their natural hostilities.
Click to expand...

So what I suspected all along is that this isn't so much an ISIS invasion but the start of the Iraqi civil war and ISIS was used to jump start it. That could also explain the lack of an immediate response by the US as attacking ISIS alone won't automatically result in the return of Mosul to Baghdad's control. Maybe it's better to just split Iraq in half and leave it at that.
 
Glaucus said:
What I don't understand is how the Iraqi army could be so completely useless.
Click to expand...
Perhaps deep down they just feel like they are putting their lives on the line to watch out for American interests and that's just not really a compelling reason to die for.
 
Glaucus said:
Well part of that is just Russian and Syrian propaganda. I see no reason to believe that any Western nation is backing ISIS and ISIS and all other extremist groups would be targeted along with Assad.
Click to expand...
Technically Saudi Arabia is not a "Western" country. The relationship with the US if often fraught and hard to figure out but often when they have run these kinds of operations before it is with the tacit consent of the US. Brutal theocratic dictatorships aren't anathema to the US. Saudi Arabia IS one. But the US is looking for hegemony and Russia and China stand in the way and Iran stands on a lot of oil. Saudi Arabia sees Iran as a threat and Russia as a competitor. They funded the mujahadeem in Afghanistan during the Russian occupation there (along with the Pakistani ISI who are probably still working with their people in Afghanistan) and they have funded Chechen groups. Chaos impacting a Russian aligned government and an Iranian aligned government is clearly in Washington's interest. I'm not so sure they would want to interfere - at least not until they got a serious oath of allegiance from Maliki and his government .. .or just wait for their ouster and deal (or continue dealing with) the rebels.

In fact I think the entire world should band together to defeat ISIS.
Click to expand...
What, and take their eye off Ukraine? Now is the perfect time to apply more military pressure in Ukraine and get rid of all those people who would rather be Russian. That pushes western held territory right to the border and forces waves of refugees into Russia. Between Chechens, NATO and Al-Qaeda they're in a bit of a pickle and the world is looking at Iraq!! One thing about international power relations is, you ALWAYS kick a guy when he's down.
 
Glaucus said:
So what I suspected all along is that this isn't so much an ISIS invasion but the start of the Iraqi civil war and ISIS was used to jump start it. That could also explain the lack of an immediate response by the US as attacking ISIS alone won't automatically result in the return of Mosul to Baghdad's control. Maybe it's better to just split Iraq in half and leave it at that.
Click to expand...
There is likely plenty of truth to that. Remember Fallujah this just this January. ISIS took over the town and the Iraq army went shelling it to get it back. Even then the Christian Science Monitor was reporting that it was very few ISIS fighters hanging about and mostly local militias and tribes doing the fighting. But Fallujah's like that.

Anyway, I really don't think America cares all that much. That's a Saudi op and they'll let them run it so long as US interests are respected. Losing a bunch of military equipment just means contracts to replace it and who doesn't like contracts? People getting hurt is just such a non-thing.
 
Hmm. Maybe the US WILL do something. Very tentative steps Iran is taking to "help" but if they get too involved the US will want to put their muscle in there to shut out any credit the Iranians might get.
 
ed6inz.jpg





worjrw.jpg


more here
 
Glaucus said:
Stop Calling the Iraq War a 'Mistake'
Click to expand...
I'll read the rest of that after the fitbaw is finished but I will say Kucinich is one of the few politicians in the US who came through the run up to the invasion with his credibility and integrity relatively intact.

-EDIT-

Finally got around to reading it and, whilst it makes for depressing reading, I can't say I disagree with any of it.
 
Last edited:
British Embassy in Iran re-opening.

"There has never been any doubt in my mind that we should have an embassy in Tehran if the circumstances allowed," he said. "Iran is an important country in a volatile region, and maintaining embassies around the world, even under difficult conditions, is a central pillar of the UK's global diplomatic approach. I have therefore now decided the circumstances are right to reopen our embassy in Tehran."
Click to expand...

Despite the tragic circumstances that have led to such ridiculous statements, I can't help finding them funny.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2014/jun/17/british-embassy-iran-tehran-reopened-william-hague
 
Why Iran Is America’s Best New Partner in the Middle East
It’s stunning that, as we witness the spectacle of a crumbling Iraq and wonder what to do about it, the media turn for wisdom to the junkyard oracles who helped spawn the mess to begin with.
Bill Kristol, Paul Wolfowitz, L. Paul Bremer—no one should care a whit what they think, they’ve been so consistently wrong about everything. (As the first U.S. proconsul in post-Saddam Iraq, Bremer issued two directives—abolishing the Iraqi army and ousting all Baathists from government jobs—that had the effect of fueling the Sunni insurgency, prolonging the war, and siring the jihadist movement that’s causing trouble today.) Yet there they are, granted airtime not on Fox News but the three major networks, spouting advice to President Obama on how to fix things.
Click to expand...
These guys have caused enough pain and suffering. It's time to explore new options. I think the US working with Iran certainly has it's merits and in some ways makes sense - both nations played a key role in screwing up Iraq and bringing about this mess. The question is, is Iraq fixable? I still believe that a long term solution may require creating a new nation for the Sunnis. And something similar may be needed in Syria.
 
Glaucus said:
These guys have caused enough pain and suffering.
Click to expand...
But they're still on Fox shooting their mouths off and they still have power and influence. They never went away and they won't go now. Ukraine is one of theirs.
They still have the Murdoch block with them and driving the media is a big part of setting the mood of the country and constraining what an administration can do. They still have Australia and Canada pretty much under their belt but the UK has been wavering for a while and with Eric Cantor suffering defeat perhaps there is a real political shift going on.
 
03/16/2003, Dick Cheney, Vice President

"My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . [in] weeks rather than months."
 
Just lets remember that the neo-cons are old news. Even Fox News is taking shots at them.
Megyn Kelly to Cheney: You Were Wrong
Apparently it's not just the left up in arms over former Vice President Dick Cheney's op-ed in the Wall Street Journal. Wednesday night on Fox News, host Megyn Kelly took Cheney to task for writing that "Rarely has a U.S. president been so wrong about so much at the expense of so many." As Kelly pointedly told Cheney, "But time and time again, history has proven you got it in wrong as well in Iraq, sir." She continued: "You said there was no doubt Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. You said we would be greeted as liberators. You said the Iraq insurgency was in its last throes back in 2005. And you said that our intervention extremists would have to rethink their strategy of jihad." Cheney responded that he "fundamentally disagrees" with her list, that everybody thought Saddam had weapons, and after 9/11 "it would have been irresponsible for us not to act." Kelly also took Cheney to task for criticizing the president over American forces leaving Iraq, pointing out that it was former President Bush who signed the agreement having all troops leave by end of 2011, and that Iraq's Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki was the one who did not want stay behind forces.
Click to expand...
Fluffy, I've said this so many times you'd think you'd catch on, but things aren't so darned simple. Nor are they so black and white. You're still fighting yesterdays war.
 
lets remember that the neo-cons are old news
Click to expand...

That they may be but they still seem to be getting plenty of exposure in current news.
 
Glaucus said:
Just lets remember that the neo-cons are old news.
Click to expand...
"old news" != no longer influential. In fact "old news" was one of the neo-con's favourite ways of side-lining uncomfortable facts. Our Harper is very much following in the neo-con school, another fundy figurehead backed by oil money and the same right-wing media machine that was so instrumental in the States. But come the next elections we'll see if we swing back the other way or not.

Saying the neo-cons are old news is like saying the Republican party is old news - just because they don't hold the balance of power now doesn't mean they won't in the future. The neo-cons flourished under Reagan, lost influence under Bush 41 but they still managed to get Yugoslavia done. They seemed a little dormant under Clinton but they came back with a vengeance under the lesser Bush. The founders are getting on a bit now but they've been working to pass the torch. They are a driven bunch with powerful allies. Don't dismiss them so quickly.
 
After all these years, just hearing his voice again sends a cold shiver down my back...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top