Benefits of Socialism

There certainly are great examples of where socialism doesn't work, but socialist medicine isn't one of them. That's why piss poor countries like Cuba have a medical system that is overall comparable to the richest nation on the planet, and why slightly better off socialist medical systems are noticeably superior..

Great Cuban healthcare is a illusion
Foreigners who visit Cuba, are fed the official line from Castro's propaganda machine: "All Cubans are now able to receive excellent healthcare, which is also free." But the truth is very different. Castro built excellent health facilities for the use of foreigners, who pay with hard currency, Cubans have different facilities for their "free health care"
 
Wal-Mart considers expanding healthcare services at its clinics
A confidential document says the retail giant is exploring ways to become a primary care service provider by partnering with outside healthcare companies to treat and manage a range of serious medical conditions at its 140 in-store clinics nationwide.


Retail giant Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is exploring ways to expand the kinds of healthcare services it offers at dozens of stores across the country, potentially setting the stage to turn the nation's largest retailer into a major primary care service provider and drive down costs for millions of Americans.
The Arkansas retail giant is looking to partner with outside healthcare companies to treat and manage a range of serious medical conditions — including HIV, diabetes, arthritis and clinical depression — at 140 store clinics nationwide.
:D we're all gonna get cuban healthcare at the hands of those friggin "socialists" at wal mart, who are "for" capitalism when it disbands unions and has half its employees living off food stamps and state provided healthcare, but okay with socialism when they get those food stamps back from their employees... oh bastions of glory! capitalism! because YAY!!! really??
 
Kenyan government is gangster government
Capitalism is an economic system not a method of governing. Well, until it builds enough wealth that the result is the negation of any type of government. So in Kenya we see capitalism degraded into a kleptocracy. In America we see capitalism hasn't quite fallen that far but due to the ability to buy an election we're closing in on a Corpatocracy.

Kenya is among the world's most corrupt countries. Kenyans, most living on less the $1 USD per day, pay on average 16 bribes a month, 2 in every 3 encounters with a government official requires a bribe to be paid.
It's only a bribe if you believe in socialism's ability for the government to collect money and provide services therefore to pay employees. If everyone and everything is a capitalist then barter and bid would be happening at all turns. Including at the individual level. Again why this is a good example of a system that's capitalistic but degraded in barberism.

Capitalism requires "Rule of Law" and property rights
"Rule of Law" - The rule for a capitalist system is barter and trade. If you're going to be fair you need an external agency, typically government, to impose rules and judge the rules and results. The "Rule of Law" is a socialist idea!

robert said:
Retail giant Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is exploring ways to expand the kinds of healthcare services it offers
Wal-Mart is a great example of funnelling too much money. Walmart doesn't manufacture much it resales. The majority of it's profits are not in the generation of wealth but in the collection of wealth. Walmart is big enough it could start it's own factories and put others out of business. What ends up happening is 'socialism' for the corporation instead of 'socialism' by the government. In the bad parts of both systems there isn't much difference. One just needs to decide which King they perfer.
 
In America we see capitalism hasn't quite fallen that far but due to the ability to buy an election we're closing in on a Corpatocracy.
Praise be Obama, give him some credit, he's trying

It's only a bribe if you believe in socialism's ability for the government to collect money and provide services therefore to pay employees.
Oh! So its Obama's master plan, he is an expert on the "Chicago Way" and has some close Kenyan advisers he consults

"Rule of Law" If you're going to be fair you need an external agency, typically government, to impose rules and judge the rules and results. The "Rule of Law" is a socialist idea!
and I thought it was the [url=http://www.constitution.org/eng/magnacar.htm]http://www.constitution.org/eng/magnacar.htm Magna Charta but your saying it was really Marx and Engles idea![/URL]

Walmart doesn't manufacture much it resales. The majority of it's profits are not in the generation of wealth but in the collection of wealth. Walmart is big enough it could start it's own factories and put others out of business.

Walmart is a retailer! they sell goods others manufacture.
They create wealth by selling goods at a profit, priced cheaper than their competitors
Their customers are then also wealthier because they get more goods for their money than at competitors stores
 
Praise be Obama, give him some credit, he's trying
When a baseball team is losing and they throw in that last pitcher in the 9th inning and he doesn't pull out of the slump is it really his fault the game has lost? Or do the other half dozen pitchers that threw the home runs bear some responsiblity? Afterall they setup the game in it's losing state then handed it to the last guy to try and fix. Asking Obama (or McCain) to fix 30 years of problem in 3 is akin to asking the last pitcher to fix the errors of the first 8 innings.

Unfortunately the USA has been moving into corporate arms over the last 30+ years. There is nothing new here with the centrist Obama. He's continued the Reagan pattern. Even sader is we have no option to go the other way. The next election is simply one between degrees of corporate power control in the USA.

Ideas of socialism existed and were in use prior to Marx or Engles. They simply provided more formalization. Socialism is the idea of communal ownership. I hope you can name various communial type of societies throughout history. For example, early Christians ran their societies as a communial shared collective. Various African tribes ran by socialism where no one owned but their small hut and all work and rewards were shared within society. Certainly tribal socialism pre-dated Marx or Engles. And if you haven't researced Sparta check it out. I think you'll find socialism at play. Again they didn't call the shared productions and shared rewards socialism that was simply a term that came into play later once the concept was more cohesively formalized.

Walmart is a retailer! they sell goods others manufacture.
They create wealth by selling goods at a profit, priced cheaper than their competitors
Their customers are then also wealthier because they get more goods for their money than at competitors stores
I think we'd have to agree what wealth is before continuing. I'd argue Walmart allows you to use your wealth more effectively. It doesn't make you wealthier, as in you have no more money to spend than before. So if we're talking wealth of the economy are we talking monetary contributions, such as economists would, or is there some quality of life measure by including goods?

If you're going more far reaching then you can't stop at only analyzing customers. Analyze manufacturers - most had to offshore which moves wealth out of the USA and into another nation. The USA lost 200K jobs from 2001-2006 to WalMart offshoring this. Does the net gains make up for those losses? Companies that off-shore jobs aren't adding to wealth they are detracting. So the Trade Deficits mean we're paying China more money and we're making less stuff here.

I know you hate Obama. One of the good things in the last couple of years is higher paid manufacturing jobs are on the rise. Manufacturing adds to the economy. It takes raw materials and makes a sellable good that didn't exist before. So when we do this within our shores we add here. When Walmart does it in China they add to china.
 
I think we'd have to agree what wealth is before continuing. I'd argue Walmart allows you to use your wealth more effectively. It doesn't make you wealthier, as in you have no more money to spend than before.

You can buy the good at 2 stores, at store1 the item is $10, at store2 $5 , if you purchase from store2 you have more cash remaining and the good, compared to the same purchase from store1

If you're going more far reaching then you can't stop at only analyzing customers. Analyze manufacturers - most had to offshore which moves wealth out of the USA and into another nation. The USA lost 200K jobs from 2001-2006 to WalMart offshoring this. Does the net gains make up for those losses? Companies that off-shore jobs aren't adding to wealth they are detracting. So the Trade Deficits mean we're paying China more money and we're making less stuff here.
add the gains of 300M customers, companies that sell cheaper goods are increasing the wealth of their customers. Its not a long term smart policy for a country to lose its high skilled manufacturing base, but that has to due with tax, labor & environmental policies of the government

Apple has only an 8.8% market share of the world wide cell phone market but captures 74% of the profits Apple owns no factories of their own they just contract assembly, in china.

One of the good things in the last couple of years is higher paid manufacturing jobs are on the rise. Manufacturing adds to the economy. It takes raw materials and makes a sellable good that didn't exist before. .

Obama's EPA & OSHA have been forcing manufacturing jobs out of the country. You want a manufacturing base, you need energy, How's that Keystone pipeline coming along? Oh, that right its been blocked, How about coal? Regulating them out of business.
 
@metalman

Obama has been forcing manufacturing out of the Country? Certainly some jobs may have left. Obama's policies wer voted on in 2009, after he was elected. Jan 2010 was the low point in manufacturing. Since then the USA has gained nearly half a million new manufacturing jobs. http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm. Yeah not much but clearly not the losses you claim.
 
Wealth isn't created, it's accumulated.

Innovation creates Wealth
Every time AMD or Intel design a new faster cpu it creates wealth. They're turning sand (silicon) into something extremely valuable
Apple's new smart phone created wealth
In the 1980's the first cell phones were $4000 bricks, now their $40 and everyone has one

The internet creates wealth, what's the value of google and yahoo? They're only search engines in cyberspace you click on for free?
 
How about coal? Regulating them out of business.
http://www.steelguru.com/raw_material_news/US_coal_production_in_2011_increased_EIA/250594.html
USA 2010 and 2011 levels of coal manufacturing were above 2009 levels.
"US exports of coal reached a level not seen since 1991 with around 107 million tons of coal sent to overseas markets last year."

Looks to me that Obama's regulating them to the largest amount of US export of their product in the last 20 years.

In 2012 Coal production is down. Cliff coal is siting the soft market. That'd be too much coal for the demand. Alpha resources too cites lowered demand. We had a warm winter around the US. Those using coal for heat. (Typically heating with electricity) needed to use less.

If Obama was regulating them out of business we'd see the Coal Industry crying about this. And we'd not see a soft market where supply is beginning to outstrip demand. We'd see a market where supply was low (gone out of business means less production) compared to demand. And that's not what we're seeing.

...
It seems you coal and manufacturing data is from the late Bush era. Where the Republican President drove the economy into a ditch. You appear to want to blame Obama for the 'bad' decreases which effects aren't happening today. We can certainly talk future potential of these things. But, we aren't seeing the effects in the way you believe we are. The numbers don't lie.
 
Innovation creates Wealth
Every time AMD or Intel design a new faster cpu it creates wealth.
No it doesn't, AMD and Intel create CPUs. They only accumulate wealth when people decide to trade their hard earned dollars for a fancy new piece of silicone. It's not an automatic thing either. People are deciding to buy ARM chips these days instead. And AMDs chips are not as competitive these days and AMD is in fact losing money and are in fact hugely in debt.

But you picked an interesting analogy. Wealth is kinda like electricity - it's only useful when it's flowing. Electricity isn't created either, although people do talk about generating electricity. Since electricity is just the flow of electrons, all you can create is potential to encourage those electrons to flow. But electrons are not created or lost. Same with wealth, it flows here and there, but it's not created. That means if you suddenly gained $1000, someone else out there just lost it. The overall amount of wealth is the same.
 
Innovation creates Wealth
Every time AMD or Intel design a new faster cpu it creates wealth. They're turning sand (silicon) into something extremely valuable
Apple's new smart phone created wealth
In the 1980's the first cell phones were $4000 bricks, now their $40 and everyone has one

The internet creates wealth, what's the value of google and yahoo? They're only search engines in cyberspace you click on for free?

innovation creates wealth until its google or yahoo, and then, since theyre not selling sand... its not innovation or wealth? i guess you think advertisers shouldnt be paid for their efforts... how "sometimes" capitalistic of you... you prolly don't google search much either i'd guess... since they fixed public libraries by putting one in every home, and relegated the dewey decimal system to the dust bins of history.... :confused:... ur election year anger is out of control... glad that red meat crap works on someone... not!!
 
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