Detroit: Now under emergency management

[ilwrath]

i pray; everyday, to a god that i don't believe in; that the ties that bind us on a human level are enough to hold us together as a nation...

Now that is something to which I'll say "Amen, brother."

 

[robert l. bentham]

amen... and godspeed to you all...

 

[cecilia]

@Cecilia,

I was referring mostly to the fact that you seem to have avoided burying yourself in debt. You live within your means, you have what you earn, etc. I wasn't making any comment about your income or profession as that's not relevant.

I live within my means because I make the effort. The main reason for mentioning my profession is that I researched the reality before I began. I didn't just "fall" into art because I had nothing else to do. (It's amazing how many people think artists are naturally undisciplined)

To this day artists have no union. I knew I would never have what many people just take for granted (pensions, insurance, steady income, xmas bonus, etc), so I took everything I learned from my Grandmother about being frugal and put it work.

I have a real horror of debt. Which is why I've never been in debt. Just like I have a horror of having a car accident - I work at it so that's why I have never had a car accident.


best way to explain how to do Anything you want:

http://zenpencils.com/comic/106-chris-hadfield-an-astronauts-advice/

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...n-Detroit?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|FRONTPAGE



Oh, I've been looking forward to this one for months. The popcorn is ready.

I really hope Gov. Snyder can pull this off, and we can get some less dysfunctional leadership in Detroit. Detroit is so completely broken, it'll take something at least this large to start to try to fix it. It's going to be a complete and utter shitstorm heading there, though.



For sure.

I thought things were looking brighter for Detroit for a couple of years now?

 

[ilwrath]

I thought things were looking brighter for Detroit for a couple of years now?

Well, yes and no... Detroit under Dave Bing is definitely a lot better than Detroit under Kwame. Of course, Kwame was just found guilty today of 24 additional federal corruption charges.

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/...ht-prison?odyssey=mod|breaking|text|FRONTPAGE

And while this a chance for some healing in Detroit... The fact of the matter is that the problems are still so immense, it's difficult to fathom how they'd be fixed. The emergency manager is probably the best hope, and to say it is a long shot, is one of the larger understatements you'll find me making.

 

[robert l. bentham]

And while this a chance for some healing in Detroit... The fact of the matter is that the problems are still so immense, it's difficult to fathom how they'd be fixed. The emergency manager is probably the best hope, and to say it is a long shot, is one of the larger understatements you'll find me making.

its hard to get through... it's an interesting read... seems the path was set in motion years ago and what you are going to get is the 0% growth model of the corporatized medium city state....

http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3116detroit_dies.html

 

[robert l. bentham]

and.... cue the looters in 3...2....1....

Report: Romney’s Brother Mulling U.S. Senate Bid In Michigan


http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/report-romneys-brother-mulling-us-senate-bid-in

 

[ilwrath]

Meh... The Romney name isn't worth too much 'round these parts. Mitt Romney barely won the Michigan Republican Primary, and it's his home state.

 

[robert l. bentham]

Meh... The Romney name isn't worth too much 'round these parts. Mitt Romney barely won the Michigan Republican Primary, and it's his home state.

and you're lucky for that...he'll have to worm his way in... won't matter if they can't walk through the front... but i can't help but wonder what all that senatorial campaign access would be worth to bain capital... he'd get to be there while they talk about doling up the iraq oil fields... i mean city of detroit... get to help to guide contracts and generally serve as a public spokesperson to divide people on whether it's best to divide the public and sell half of it off... and rest assured... they'll go cryin to uncle sugar for a bailout after privatization has proven itself too susceptible to corruption... i know detroit is a mess right now...and not to make light of your plight... so aren't a whole lot of other places... i remain unconvinced of the value of an emergency city manager... and i especially hate the thought of circumventing the elected will of the people... if EM is so great... get him elected... put bing on the ballot and EM as a write in... until then, we the people, should chip in to keep them afloat... they will by ur parks and ur water for pennies on the dollar and sell it back to you at ten... and you won't like it because they will have stolen from you all that is beautiful about your city and you will still be left with the blight... detroits' problems seem simple; hell, most everybody's do. but you need a surgeon at this point and i'm afraid what you're going to get is a butcher.... imho

 

[ilwrath]

and i especially hate the thought of circumventing the elected will of the people... if EM is so great... get him elected... put bing on the ballot and EM as a write in...

Well, if you leave it up to the will of the people of Detroit, Detroit never will get fixed. The people re-elected Coleman Young a billion times as he ran Detroit into the ground. The people re-elected Kwame multiple times, up until he was forcibly removed by the state for corruption.

The people of Detroit are not rational actors, anymore. They don't want what's best for themselves. (If they even know what that is, anymore.) They elected Kwame. And you know what? They'd elect him again, if it weren't for the fact he's ineligible, due to being currently locked up for bilking them. Detroit has been conditioned to be a very insular community and city. I hate to say it, but I believe the only reason Dave Bing got in is because he's got old school cred. Before he was a Detroit businessman, he was a hall of fame basketball player for the Detroit Pistons. They understand that.

They don't understand a lot of successful people, because, typically, as someone from Detroit becomes successful, they choose to live somewhere where there's routine trash pickup... somewhere where the public school's graduation rate exceeds it's violent crime rate... somewhere they can buy home insurance... In short, somewhere they can live a semi-normal life. And that is outside Detroit. And, when they leave, the community then brands them an outsider if they later come back to try to help. The community opposes them at every turn, until they finally just give up and say {bleep} it, {bleep} them, they can continue to shit in their own kitchen if they really want to. It is a terribly sad situation, but it absolutely has created a complete vacuum of good role models and leadership in the city. This, I believe, is the core of the biggest problem in Detroit.

until then, we the people, should chip in to keep them afloat...

Of course, all the shit in Detroit's kitchen doesn't just bring them down. As a resident of Wayne County, I've been "chipping in" to keep Detroit afloat my entire life. It was easy to overlook the millions siphoned from the suburbs toward city projects (read: embezzlements) when everything was booming. The lack of money isn't the real problem. Hell, there are quite a few local public school districts that have less money per student than Detroit. Yet Detroit continues to be a drag on the entire county and even state.

It's well past time for some change. Someone's got to tackle that mess.

they will by ur parks and ur water for pennies on the dollar and sell it back to you at ten... and you won't like it because they will have stolen from you all that is beautiful about your city and you will still be left with the blight...

Well, the water department, I agree is a farce. Though, to be fair, it was actually Dave Bing, and the Detroit Public Water and Sewage group who were in FAVOR of privatizing it. See what I mean about the lack of leadership here?

http://www.freep.com/article/20121120/NEWS01/121120088/Detroit-City-Council-water-department

detroits' problems seem simple; hell, most everybody's do.

Indeed. Everyone elses' problems are always simple... from a distance.

but you need a surgeon at this point and i'm afraid what you're going to get is a butcher.... imho

What we need is a team of sanitation workers, and someone to train the people to stop shitting in the kitchen. What we'll get? Well... who knows? But I'll settle for anyone who at least understands that shitting in the kitchen is a bad idea. And I don't trust the people of Detroit to elect anyone with an idea as radical as that. Therefore, like I said before, as much as I agree with the theory of a lot of things you're saying, I also strongly agree with appointing an emergency manager.

And, as EMs go, I think someone like Kevyn Orr could do a lot of good. (Though it's not finalized that he'll be the pick.)
http://news.yahoo.com/jones-day-lawyer-governors-choice-detroit-manager-report-131350915.html

 

[robert l. bentham]

first i would say this... this has been the most pleasant disagreement i have had with another human being i think ever. 2nd... thanks for that

Well, if you leave it up to the will of the people of Detroit, Detroit never will get fixed. The people re-elected Coleman Young a billion times as he ran Detroit into the ground. The people re-elected Kwame multiple times, up until he was forcibly removed by the state for corruption.

The people of Detroit are not rational actors, anymore. They don't want what's best for themselves. (If they even know what that is, anymore.) They elected Kwame. And you know what? They'd elect him again, if it weren't for the fact he's ineligible, due to being currently locked up for bilking them. Detroit has been conditioned to be a very insular community and city. I hate to say it, but I believe the only reason Dave Bing got in is because he's got old school cred. Before he was a Detroit businessman, he was a hall of fame basketball player for the Detroit Pistons. They understand that.
They don't understand a lot of successful people, because, typically, as someone from Detroit becomes successful, they choose to live somewhere where there's routine trash pickup... somewhere where the public school's graduation rate exceeds it's violent crime rate... somewhere they can buy home insurance... In short, somewhere they can live a semi-normal life. And that is outside Detroit. And, when they leave, the community then brands them an outsider if they later come back to try to help. The community opposes them at every turn, until they finally just give up and say {bleep} it, {bleep} them, they can continue to shit in their own kitchen if they really want to. It is a terribly sad situation, but it absolutely has created a complete vacuum of good role models and leadership in the city. This, I believe, is the core of the biggest problem in Detroit.
Of course, all the shit in Detroit's kitchen doesn't just bring them down. As a resident of Wayne County, I've been "chipping in" to keep Detroit afloat my entire life. It was easy to overlook the millions siphoned from the suburbs toward city projects (read: embezzlements) when everything was booming. The lack of money isn't the real problem. Hell, there are quite a few local public school districts that have less money per student than Detroit. Yet Detroit continues to be a drag on the entire county and even state.
It's well past time for some change. Someone's got to tackle that mess.
Well, the water department, I agree is a farce. Though, to be fair, it was actually Dave Bing, and the Detroit Public Water and Sewage group who were in FAVOR of privatizing it. See what I mean about the lack of leadership here?

http://www.freep.com/article/20121120/NEWS01/121120088/Detroit-City-Council-water-department

Indeed. Everyone elses' problems are always simple... from a distance.



What we need is a team of sanitation workers, and someone to train the people to stop shitting in the kitchen. What we'll get? Well... who knows? But I'll settle for anyone who at least understands that shitting in the kitchen is a bad idea. And I don't trust the people of Detroit to elect anyone with an idea as radical as that. Therefore, like I said before, as much as I agree with the theory of a lot of things you're saying, I also strongly agree with appointing an emergency manager.

And, as EMs go, I think someone like Kevyn Orr could do a lot of good. (Though it's not finalized that he'll be the pick.)
http://news.yahoo.com/jones-day-lawyer-governors-choice-detroit-manager-report-131350915.html

look i wanna talk to you about this and i will in the morning i just got off work... thanks again... you know... people can disagree and still act like civilized beasts... but just so you get a heads up i want you to go look at this... in the interest of fairness... u guys are about to get an old school "bust out" pulled on your city and these guys are old school pro's at it...

http://www.jonesday.com/principlesandvalues/clientlist/

Abbott Laboratories
Abercrombie & Fitch Co.
Alcatel-Lucent
Ameren Corporation
American Airlines
American Greetings Corporation
Amway Corporation
Apple Inc.
Axiall Corp.
Bank of America Corporation
Bayer AG
Beiqi Foton Motor Co., Ltd.
BMW AG
Bombardier
Bon Secours Health System, Inc.
Bridgestone Corporation
The British Land Company PLC
Cardinal Health, Inc.
CBS Corporation
Celgene Corporation
CenterPoint Energy, Inc.
Chevron Corporation
China International Capital Corporation Limited
Chrysler LLC
Citigroup Inc.
ConAgra Foods, Inc.
Cooper Tire & Rubber Company
County of Los Angeles
Cumulus Media Inc.
CVS Caremark Corporation
DDR Corp.
Dell Inc.
Deutsche Bank AG
Diebold, Incorporated
DIRECTV
Dominion East Ohio
The Duchossois Group
Eastman Chemical Company
Eastman Kodak Company
Edison Mission Energy
Exelon Corporation
Exide Technologies
Experian
ExxonMobil Corporation
FirstEnergy Corp.
Freescale Semiconductor, Inc.
Frito‑Lay, Inc.
GenCorp Inc.
Genentech, Inc.
General Electric Company
General Motors Company
The Goldman Sachs Group, L.P.
Hanson PLC
HCA Inc.
Honda Motor Co., Ltd.
Husky Energy Inc.
International Business Machines Corporation
Internet Corporation for Assigned Names and Numbers (ICANN)
Jefferies & Company, Inc.
Jones Lang LaSalle
JPMorgan Chase Bank
KeyCorp
Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc.
Lennar Corporation
Liberty Media Group
The Lincoln Electric Company
The Lubrizol Corporation
Macy's
Mag Instrument, Inc.
Materion Corporation
MedImmune, Inc.
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries Ltd.
Morgan Stanley Realty
NACCO Industries, Inc.
Nationwide Insurance Companies
Nikon Corporation
OGE Energy Corp.
Omnicom Group Inc.
Parker‑Hannifin Corporation
PepsiCo, Inc.
Pershing Square Capital Management, L.P.
Pfizer Inc.
Potash Corporation of Saskatchewan Inc.
Primus Capital Fund
The Procter & Gamble Company
Purdue Pharma, L.P.
Research in Motion Limited
Reynolds American Inc.
Rhodia
Richemont International, S.A.
The Riverside Company
Royal Bank of Scotland Commercial Service
SanDisk Corporation
Sanofi SA
SAP AG
SCANA Corporation
The Sherwin‑Williams Company
Simon Property Group, Inc.
The Southern Company
Sprint Nextel Corporation
Standard Bank Plc
SunPower Corporation
Tenet Healthcare Corporation
Texas Instruments Incorporated
TEXTRON INC.
The Timken Company
TNK-BP
TOTAL S.A.
Toyota Motor Corporation
Trammell Crow Residential
United Air Lines, Inc.
URS Corporation
USG Corporation
Verizon Business
Verizon Communications Inc.
Verizon Wireless
WL Ross & Co. LLC
The Washington Post Company
Wells Fargo & Company
Yamaha Motor Co., Ltd.

 

[ilwrath]

look i wanna talk to you about this and i will in the morning i just got off work... thanks again... you know... people can disagree and still act like civilized beasts... but just so you get a heads up i want you to go look at this... in the interest of fairness... u guys are about to get an old school "bust out" pulled on your city and these guys are old school pro's at it...

http://www.jonesday.com/principlesandvalues/clientlist/

It's possible. But I don't like to judge a group by their client list. Any law firm of sufficient size is going to have a lot of Fortune 500 companies on its list. And those companies do things we don't like often enough. Doesn't necessarily mean the law firm is a bad egg.

Really, the only thing I know about Jones Day is how they handled Chrysler during the bailouts. A few years ago, Chrysler was in shambles. They were pretty well pillaged by Daimler and tossed to the curb to die. There wasn't much but a shell left of that company. General consensus by insiders around Detroit was that Chrysler was screwed beyond hope. Jones Day managed to work out a pretty mutually beneficial agreement with Fiat, and now I look at the new Viper, new Dodge Dart MultiAir, and a few other products in the pipe... And I'm seeing a viable car company. Granted, a lot of that was accomplished by Fiat buying in. But the fact is, Chrysler is viable again, and there's folks in my family who still have jobs with Chrysler. And there's no way either of those things would be without intervention.

In this one case, Jones Day absolutely did what was in the best interests of the people involved. Granted, I'm sure they cashed themselves a huge paycheck at the end of it, but find me a competent company that doesn't. I stand by my statement that as EM goes, we could do a heck of a lot worse.

first i would say this... this has been the most pleasant disagreement i have had with another human being i think ever. 2nd... thanks for that

Well, I love learning, and I love a good discussion. I'm not even sure it's a disagreement so much as a discussion. Sometimes I'll take a counter position just to challenge a widely accepted idea. And I really do appreciate someone who defends their ideas with pertinent points, rather than retreating to name calling and other nonsense. So thanks back.

 

[robert l. bentham]

car companies aren't communities, and while the two may appear to have similar situational problems when they are teetering on collapse, the reality couldn't be farther from the truth. solutions to problems can rarely be cross applied because the goals for both institutions, exist on opposite and competing ends of the spectrum. the goal of business, is the bottom line. the goal of government is the "public good". and while a good many supporters of "free markets" will argue that what is good for people is good for business; capitalism, as an economic model, holds no loyalties to the "public good"... a pretty good read on that can be found here...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/mar/16/capitalism-efficient-we-can-do-better

i accept the premise of this article as i have seen much of this with my own two eyes... so who would want to turn over the "public good", knowing all this, to a bunch of companies where profit is put first over people? well, that's worth taking a look at... and you can here...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/02/michigan-emergency-manager-pontiac-detroit

so... what we got her is a faltering community, and that is what it is... faltering...
guy comes along and says he has magic powers and can fix it...
starts by raising revenues by selling the building and leasing it, borrows some bailout money, and runs up the credit cards, things look good kinda on paper for a bit, and then one day (well one night usually) the place gets burned to the ground.... it's a "bust out"... old school mafia style... or a leveraged buy out for you that survived the 80's and 90's... and i know you think that isn't coming, but it is.... you needn't look any further than the "progress " made in pontiac...

http://www.inquisitr.com/171172/pontiac-michigan-officials-are-selling-off-their-city/

Part of the cities problem has been their bad decision making, for example in 2005 an independent company offered to purchase the now vacated Silverdome (former home of the Detroit Lions and many awesome monster truck rallies) for $20 million, the city turned down that generous offer and instead sold the stadium in 2009 for $583,000 at public auction.
Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/171172/pontiac-michigan-officials-are-selling-off-their-city/#cEEydX35YVRXsqt1.99

http://www.michiganradio.org/post/pontiac-michigan-city-hall-police-and-fire-stations-could-be-sale

solutions won't come at the hands of wizards... financial or any other kind... and truthfully, nobody has thus far even correctly diagnosed the actual problem, or publicly admitted it at any rate.... i think i know what it is tho (ain't i vain?)

 

[ilwrath]

guy comes along and says he has magic powers and can fix it...
starts by raising revenues by selling the building and leasing it, borrows some bailout money, and runs up the credit cards, things look good kinda on paper for a bit, and then one day (well one night usually) the place gets burned to the ground.... it's a "bust out"... old school mafia style... or a leveraged buy out for you that survived the 80's and 90's... and i know you think that isn't coming, but it is....

Well, the only problem with this theory is that the buildings are worthless (they can't give them away -- they try during public auctions every 6 months), there is no bailout money, the credit cards are already maxed, and burning is typically the preferred renovation method in Detroit, and would actually be an improvement in most areas.

you needn't look any further than the "progress " made in pontiac...

Ugh.... Now ya drag Pontiac into this? lol...

Pontiac is a lot more like Allen Park than it is Detroit. Pontiac wasn't a great city, but you could live in Pontiac. It more or less "worked." Their major problem was the absolute financial soaking they took on that white elephant we affectionately call the Collapsible Silverdome. (The roof collapses and destroys itself every time the stadium loses positive pressure.) FYI, the roof is currently in a collapsed and destroyed state, yet again. I guess it happened in January, but I first realized while driving through that area a few weeks ago. The local media conveniently chose to avoid mentioning it. The current owner's statement is much like "Oh yeah, the roof.... We meant to do that. We're going to replace the roof with... uhm... err... self supporting solar panels, buttressed by glorious, mighty unicorns that fart rainbows."
http://deadspin.com/5978090/the-silverdome-has-been-abandoned-to-the-elements

Part of the cities problem has been their bad decision making, for example in 2005 an independent company offered to purchase the now vacated Silverdome (former home of the Detroit Lions and many awesome monster truck rallies) for $20 million, the city turned down that generous offer and instead sold the stadium in 2009 for $583,000 at public auction.

I believe, though I can't find the article, now, that the state of the roof is largely responsible for change in sale price over that time. The roof had collapsed yet again after the Lions were done with the facility, and Pontiac footed the huge bill of repairing it (which I believe was over the $20 mil offered back then, so they didn't take it -- which, even given this backstory, was probably one of the dumbest moves in Pontiac history -- unload the place and be done with it! We all groaned when they didn't take that offer...) While the roof was still inflated at the 2009 sale, there was a report floating about stating it's imminent collapse.

Anyhow, enough about the Silverdome. The point is that the two cities are quite different. See Pontiac had buildings that were worth money (though the Silverdome never was one of them), they had functional police, fire, etc services that could be bilked for more money. Unlike Detroit, their fire department doesn't have to scavenge parts from closed firehouses to try to keep the open ones still habitable.

A lot of these things make it sound like I hate the city of Detroit. I don't. I love it. Like I'd love a brother with a bad crack addiction. I hold out hope that maybe this arrest might really be the bottom. You tell yourself that maybe the forced time in lockup will help him clean up his act.

Truth is, it probably won't. None of the previous interventions have helped. There's not really any system in place to support my optimistic view that an EM can help. And, as you've pointed out, corporations are unlikely to care much more for people (especially people they can't immediately use for profit) much more than their current leadership cares about them (ie, none). Still, at least it's a change from the status quo. And, for whatever it's worth, Rochelle Riley shares my optimism. I suppose I could be in worse company.
http://www.freep.com/article/201303...-a-realistic-hope-of-getting-Detroit-on-track

 

[robert l. bentham]

you know... detroits problem is largely americas problem... what made detroit great won't work again... it won't revitalize america again either... manufacturing sn't going to come back and it's because we as a people have decided we dont want dirty air water or soil... the boom in china was merely a shifting of shit pools and we damn skippy don't want them here, and when we do, we expect you to build multimillion dollar ways of processing it out and that leaves only with more expensive and pure toxins to deal with... what you need is some manufacturing innovation and a consolidation and reinforcement of the good things you have, what you are about to get is pensions cut, wages cut further, and unions busted... all of which will help detroit in the first year or two but will inevitably lead to a systemic destruction of the tax base for detroit, whereupon the owners will truly become the masters... much of what the civil war was actually fought over was "how" we would industrialize this "alleged" great nation. half of the country preferred slave labour, the other half, indentured servitude where you owed your soul to the company store, invisible chains. it wasn't until people were sickened by their bonds for long enough on either end of the same leash that unions were created and a middle class was bourne. one thing they could both agree on was that any notion of a middle class needed to be stopped. and they've been pulling the leash ever since...

 

[robert l. bentham]

http://truth-out.org/news/item/15217-detroit-citizens-prepare-to-fight-their-corporate-master

welcome to austeretroit

 

[ilwrath]

http://truth-out.org/news/item/15217-detroit-citizens-prepare-to-fight-their-corporate-master

welcome to austeretroit

Haha! Oh brother. Again, while that article may cover something of value, it is so far removed from anything approaching the reality of this area, that I honestly couldn't finish reading it. I'll manage to torch it to a point somewhere approximating where I made it to.

Fresh from shoving his "Right to Work for Less" legislation down the throats of Michigan's workers

Right from opening sentence, it goes south. "Right to Work" was far from being shoved down any throats. It was put up to vote and the people of Michigan overwhelmingly voted for "Right to Work." Do I think that the people voted wisely? No. Honestly, I don't.

But, do I understand why my neighbors voted like they did? Absolutely. To almost everyone in Michigan, "union" means the UAW. UAW is the only union they think of. To the point that "UAW" and "union" are synonymous and interchangeable in their vocabulary.

Now, it doesn't take any expert or study to realize that the UAW are as deeply corrupt and in the corporate pocket as the government is. The UAW does not encourage job growth. (In fact, they encourage the opposite. Look at where the manufacturing jobs are now, around the country.) The UAW does not encourage equity. (The "brotherhood" completely sold out and undermined themselves when they agreed to the two tier system.) The UAW doesn't fight to have their best workers recognized. (In fact, they fight to have their worst workers protected.) In short, there is nothing left of the UAW that can be considered respectable.

The vote on Right to Work was a very predictable indictment of the UAW.

Nearly half of all of Michigan's African-American citizens are now effectively left with no vote in local government; they are stuck with taxation without representation.

Ah, and for the second paragraph, we pointlessly throw down the race card and the bonus points of a misappropriated old call to revolution.

Taxation without representation would seem to indicate that the residents of Detroit are paying taxes. And, while they do pay some, Detroit, in net, is sucking in taxes from the rest of Wayne County, the State of Michigan and the Federal Government. And it's about time this was recognized. I've been paying the Detroit tax without having any representation in Detroit for my entire life. My representation is the state takeover of the completely broken city leadership. And I approve as does nearly the entire 5mil+ people living in the suburbs. We've been taxed without representation this entire time. And it needs to change.

Their task will be to find ways to squeeze more labor out of Detroit's workers while paying them less, open up publicly owned services for private investment, and cut social programs that do not contribute to the enrichment of the 1% by enforcing an austerity program. And the results are predictable: austerity will cause even more unemployment and increase the deficit further just as it has done in Europe.

No, the task is to first find out the actual budget of Detroit, then eliminate all the cronies who have been siphoning off funds for decades. Now, there's probably a good chance that money will instead go to their own new cronies. But they will probably have to do some token thing to help the city first. And even that one token thing is more than Detroit usually gets from its embezzlement. As for the results on unemployment. They will be negligible, as 90% or more of the unemployed people left in Detroit are completely unemployable, anyhow. And nearly all of the employed people live in the suburbs.

To justify his appointment of an EFM for Detroit, Governor Snyder is citing a state-appointed review team report. The report noted Detroit's $14 billion debt and the $327 million budget deficit, as well as other issues. What it failed to examine is the billions of dollars banks and corporations make every year as a result of doing business in Detroit.

Bwhahahaha! I had to do a spit-take here. There's businesses in Detroit making billions? Well, there's Quicken Loans. And.... Err... GM still makes a billion now and then, when it isn't losing a few billion. And Compuware. Did they ever make a billion? They probably did once, though they are in pretty deep trouble at the moment... And... Hmm... Yup, that's pretty much all for the banks and corporations that make a billion dollars in Detroit. All the rest are in the suburbs, already. It's the booming corporate climate in Detroit that causes the hundreds of thousands of feet of empty office space that can't be given away. Office vacancy still lingers around 20% or higher in prime business areas. And that is not even counting all the buildings that have been more recently boarded up, let alone the decades-long abandoned skyscrapers. Being that GM and Compuware are on kinda thin ice, you can't really tax them that much more... But if you tax the ever-loving hell out of Quicken... That'll fix it all! What can possibly go wrong with this idea? I'm sure they'll just go ahead and finance all of waste in Detroit! We're saved!

And I think this is the point I have to throw in the towel due to time and sanity limits. There ARE good arguments against an EM. This managed to hit on none of them, and instead chose to play off poorly researched ideas, and sensationalized nonsense. A complete piece of drivel. F-

 

[robert l. bentham]

well that's certainly one way to look at it... i read everything with a grain of salt... but here's the part that stuck with me...

This development is a bi-partisan affair. While Governor Snyder is a Republican, Kevyn Orr is a Democrat who worked for President Obama's election. Detroit's Democratic Mayor, Dave Bing, said of his relationship with Snyder that they are "joined at the hip."
....
Nor does the report mention that many of the banks in Detroit were bailed out at the onset of the Great Recession with trillions of taxpayer dollars — money that should have been used for jobs and public services. Not only are these banks getting off cheap on taxes while being bailed out, they have actively swindled massive amounts of revenue from Detroit’s citizens.
....
These banks also sold the city interest rate swaps, a financial tool they assured would save Detroit money. Then they set the interest rates artificially low (the LIBOR scandal) so they would make money hand over fist and leave Detroit holding the bill or pay a fee for getting out of their trap.
...
In order to do this, debt-service payments should be suspended. Last year alone Detroit paid $597 million for these payments. Even more, the banks and corporations responsible for the city's crisis should be made to pay billions of dollars in reparations. In addition, they must be made to pay their fair share in taxes.

These measures will revitalize the city and provide it with a stable revenue base for the future. However, because they run into sharp conflict with the corporate agenda pursued by politicians from both the Republican and Democratic parties, it will take a popular independent movement of working people to champion them.

with the best of intentions people have asked for change... i don't think that's what they're going to get... i took a pass on the race card too...

 

[ilwrath]

This development is a bi-partisan affair. While Governor Snyder is a Republican, Kevyn Orr is a Democrat who worked for President Obama's election. Detroit's Democratic Mayor, Dave Bing, said of his relationship with Snyder that they are "joined at the hip."

I agree that the "joined at the hip" quote is worth examining, especially if you don't know the situation. Personally, I took it as Dave Bing being genuinely excited to work with someone actually sane, for a change. Someone with enough authority to help sort out the messes that are lingering everywhere. Detroit has been strongly Democrat for a long time, and it was wise to bring in a Democrat to help. I do hope they actually manage to work hand-in-hand, and it isn't just a convenient cover-story.

Nor does the report mention that many of the banks in Detroit were bailed out at the onset of the Great Recession with trillions of taxpayer dollars

Uhm... Well, I guess you could say GMAC got bailed out as part of the GM bailout. (They're now known as Ally Bank) But other than that, can you find me any Detroit bank that was bailed out? Quicken Loans and small independent credit unions are pretty much it. None of them were bailed out... Comerica left Detroit years ago...

money that should have been used for jobs and public services.

Well, you can argue up and down what money should and shouldn't be used for. The fact of it is, the money wasn't used for that, and it wasn't used for that, anywhere. It's really a decoy argument, and no use crying over lost money, now. We need solutions, not blame.

Not only are these banks getting off cheap on taxes while being bailed out, they have actively swindled massive amounts of revenue from Detroit’s citizens.

Well, this happened nationwide, yet very few other cities are in anywhere near as much trouble as Detroit. And that, in my opinion, points to the (lack of) leadership in the city.

Even more, the banks and corporations responsible for the city's crisis should be made to pay billions of dollars in reparations. In addition, they must be made to pay their fair share in taxes.

Again, this would certainly be ideal, but it would need to happen nationally, or even better, globally. Of course, we all know how likely that is to happen. We might as well pray to to the almighty FSM for unicorns to fly in and fix everything, it's just as possible.

with the best of intentions people have asked for change... i don't think that's what they're going to get...

Well, that's the fear, right? That this will somehow make things worse. Except, if you haven't been here, you don't really realize that it's not much of an exaggeration to say there just isn't much room for anything to get worse. If there's ever a "good time" for an experiment that could fail catastrophically, this would be it. Detroit is already so deeply screwed, why not try something new? At worst, we'll learn one more thing that doesn't work.

On the positive side, even though, realistically, it is a slim chance for real change, it's still the best one we've had in decades.

 

[robert l. bentham]

Uhm... Well, I guess you could say GMAC got bailed out as part of the GM bailout. (They're now known as Ally Bank) But other than that, can you find me any Detroit bank that was bailed out? Quicken Loans and small independent credit unions are pretty much it. None of them were bailed out... Comerica left Detroit years ago...

i found two separate lists

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bankbailout/

12/12/2008 Citizens Republic Bancorp Inc. Flint Mich. $300,000,000
12/12/2008 Independent Bank Corp. Ionia Mich. $72,000,000
1/16/2009 United Bancorp, Inc. Tecumseh Mich. $20,600,000
1/30/2009 Firstbank Corporation Alma Mich. $33,000,000
2/6/2009 Monarch Community Bancorp, Inc. Coldwater Mich. $6,785,000
4/24/2009 Mackinac Financial Corporation / mBank Manistique Mich. $11,000,000
4/24/2009 Birmingham Bloomfield Bancshares, Inc Birmingham Mich. $1,635,000
5/15/2009 Mercantile Bank Corporation Grand Rapids Mich. $21,000,000
8/28/2009 First Independence Corp. Detroit Mich. $3,223,000
list two has the private mortgage companies too

http://projects.propublica.org/bailout/list/state/MI

Well, you can argue up and down what money should and shouldn't be used for. The fact of it is, the money wasn't used for that, and it wasn't used for that, anywhere. It's really a decoy argument, and no use crying over lost money, now. We need solutions, not blame.

well i would've expected that from eric holder (he has no skin in the game), but not from you. this money was stolen from the people of the great state of michigan. i would want it back, and i'm not even a resident. part of what the blame game is, is investigation into impropriety and illegalities that lead to all of this. it's also rooting out the corruption in detroits government that facilitated this.part of ensuring this wouldn't happen again is to dress down (at very least) the culprits that did this.

Well, that's the fear, right? That this will somehow make things worse. Except, if you haven't been here, you don't really realize that it's not much of an exaggeration to say there just isn't much room for anything to get worse. If there's ever a "good time" for an experiment that could fail catastrophically, this would be it. Detroit is already so deeply screwed, why not try something new? At worst, we'll learn one more thing that doesn't work.

On the positive side, even though, realistically, it is a slim chance for real change, it's still the best one we've had in decades.

well it's certainly my fear... i just can't help but believe that the place will be looted for what left remains of value and most of what federal assistance, will be asked for and received... i'm hoping for the best like you, but expecting the worse.