Enough.

[Speelgoedmannetje]

From the Wikipedia entry - "The Party for Freedom's political platform often overlap those of the assassinated Rotterdam politician Pim Fortuyn and his Pim Fortuyn List. It bases its ideas on a small government, law and order, and direct democracy ideological framework. It calls for a €16 billion tax reduction, a far stricter policy toward recreational drug use, investing more in roads and other infrastructure, building nuclear power plants, and including animal rights into the Dutch constitution." - Again, on the surface of the above statements, I find many of these platform "planks" to be similar to my own.

Ya, but you don't live there, so these "solutions" are to problems you know little about. That's just conservatism for the sake of conservatism.

Ahyes, the roads. Well, there are a hell of a lot traffic jams in the west of the Netherlands, but that's also because people and companies prefer to crawl up into the cities, and since our cities are old, the inner streets are small, traffic jams are not solved by widening the highways. So you get the same traffic jam, shorter but wider. That's hard for many people to understand.

 

[Fade]

Glaucus puffed up and said;
"Ya, but you don't live there, so these "solutions" are to problems you know little about. That's just conservatism for the sake of conservatism."
---------------------------------

What a strange statement, seeing that the experts on all things American, come from the UK and Canada.

 

[ltstanfo]

First my apologies to Speel. I don't know what mental glitch caused me to write Belgium instead of Netherlands. So much for my claim to knowing European geography. :wink:

Thanks for the lesson. I have to admit that I find the idea of deporting legally allowed immigrants to be silly at the least. These people apparently followed the rules so why punish them now? Likewise taxing Muslim headscarves is equally ridiculous (IMO). Feel free to let the education continue. See, even I can (try to) learn something.

Regards,
Ltstanfo

Well, in the 60's and 70's, there was some serious shortage of lower class labourers here in NL. So the government decided back than made it possible for foreigners (mainly from Morroco and Turkey) to enlist for these jobs. Many immigrants came here and stayed here. Everyone knows putting together two or more large groups of different ethnicities means trouble. So did our government, and they pushed hard on political correctness on the Dutch side in the 80's and 90's, but just solely on that and nothing else. But it didn't work out. There is some serious hate mongering going on here and Wilders is playing a big part in it, with calling for deportation of Muslims, and taxing headscarfs. He eerily resembles the 14 points of fascism, except for points 5, 13 and 14 (as for yet).

Oh, and Wilders is being supported by the Edmund Burke foundation.

You're welcome

 

[ltstanfo]

Ahyes, the roads. Well, there are a hell of a lot traffic jams in the west of the Netherlands, but that's also because people and companies prefer to crawl up into the cities, and since our cities are old, the inner streets are small, traffic jams are not solved by widening the highways. So you get the same traffic jam, shorter but wider. That's hard for many people to understand.

I recall similar inner city layouts / narrow (cobblestone) road issues in Germany in the (medieval) town where my grandparents lived. Good point Speel and thanks for the reminder.

Regards,
Ltstanfo

 

[ltstanfo]

Glaucus puffed up and said;
"Ya, but you don't live there, so these "solutions" are to problems you know little about. That's just conservatism for the sake of conservatism."
---------------------------------

What a strange statement, seeing that the experts on all things American, come from the UK and Canada.

I take no offense at what Mike posted. He is correct that I don't live there so I don't have the local mindset. It's much like the overseas gang trying to tell me why my views on gun control are wrong. :wink:

Still, without living there, it's sometimes difficult to appreciate what their local conditions are like.

I do like your final sentence however. :wink:

Regards,
Ltstanfo

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Glaucus puffed up and said;
"Ya, but you don't live there, so these "solutions" are to problems you know little about. That's just conservatism for the sake of conservatism."
---------------------------------

What a strange statement, seeing that the experts on all things American, come from the UK and Canada.

But Canada and the UK are both English speaking countries. I bet none of you people have one slight notion of the Dutch language. Language makes all the difference in understanding the politics of a country.

 

[Glaucus]

Actually, most Americans have no idea of what happens outside of America, while the rest of the planet has the misfortune of being constantly bombarded by all things American (although sometimes bombarded by American bombs too - funny that).

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

First my apologies to Speel. I don't know what mental glitch caused me to write Belgium instead of Netherlands. So much for my claim to knowing European geography. :wink:

No harm done, I thought you were referring to the similar situation the Belgians are in with their Flemish Bloc party.
Anyway, considering the mixing up, Belgium once was part of the Netherlands. Can't blame you for that. Especially because I can't even name all the 50 states of the US (of which all of them are many times bigger than NL )
On the other hand, you should know the Netherlands well because of the role it played in the forming of the US.

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

First my apologies to Speel. I don't know what mental glitch caused me to write Belgium instead of Netherlands. So much for my claim to knowing European geography. :wink:

Thanks for the lesson. I have to admit that I find the idea of deporting legally allowed immigrants to be silly at the least. These people apparently followed the rules so why punish them now? Likewise taxing Muslim headscarves is equally ridiculous (IMO). Feel free to let the education continue. See, even I can (try to) learn something.

I'm not sure if I'm able to teach you this all, because I fear you miss out too much context, and I fear also that much will be lost in translation :S
But I'll do my best.
This whole fuss began politically with the upcoming of Pim Fortuyn, and worsened when he got murdered. Many people felt bereft of their protest vote against the Moroccan crime rate (who are, tbh, overly presented in the crime rates) and against the bureaucracy in general. Then, Wilders thought it was a good idea to start a party and a fire. You remember those French riots in 2005? Well, if Wilders will get enough votes, I have no doubt that one little incident, like an arrested Morrocan, and we will have the same trouble here.
And thereby, God knows what Wilders is up to. He has been hammering on and on and on about the Muslims and hardly anything else, continuously. Considering his attention to that, I suspect his other points seem moot to those who vote for him (or, well, his 'clear message' to the Morrocans).

 

[ltstanfo]

Thanks for the additional info. It is interesting to hear your perspective as the media here in the states rarely gives such detail. As I stated previously, Wilders has been interviewd on US television before but such details have been lacking. Quite interesting.

Regards,
Ltstanfo

I'm not sure if I'm able to teach you this all, because I fear you miss out too much context, and I fear also that much will be lost in translation :S
But I'll do my best.
This whole fuss began politically with the upcoming of Pim Fortuyn, and worsened when he got murdered. Many people felt bereft of their protest vote against the Moroccan crime rate (who are, tbh, overly presented in the crime rates) and against the bureaucracy in general. Then, Wilders thought it was a good idea to start a party and a fire. You remember those French riots in 2005? Well, if Wilders will get enough votes, I have no doubt that one little incident, like an arrested Morrocan, and we will have the same trouble here.
And thereby, God knows what Wilders is up to. He has been hammering on and on and on about the Muslims and hardly anything else, continuously. Considering his attention to that, I suspect his other points seem moot to those who vote for him (or, well, his 'clear message' to the Morrocans).

 

[Speelgoedmannetje]

Thanks for the additional info. It is interesting to hear your perspective as the media here in the states rarely gives such detail. As I stated previously, Wilders has been interviewd on US television before but such details have been lacking. Quite interesting.

Regards,
Ltstanfo

You're welcome. Well, certainly here, the details make all the difference. But you also have to realise that the political culture is quite different here than in the US. Here you can get sued if you're spreading hatred against others.