Gaza

Almost gotta wonder if there are rogue elements within the Israeli defense force or government.
 
Almost gotta wonder if there are rogue elements within the Israeli defense force or government.
Almost all the the Israeli ruling class is rogue. They always have been. They've been given the right to do as they wish by a being that doesn't exist - but as long as they get away with everything then they have no reason to reconsider their world view. On the other hand, at least sometimes members of the government get investigated and have to go to court.
 
Well, to be fair, he did mention that Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel on a nearly daily basis and that it has gone on for some time.
Which "he" are you referring to? The one who ignored the question about the boy killed on the 8th of November - after which Hamas sent 100 rockets? What do you mean by "to be fair"? Hamas and Israel were in truce talks when Israel assassinated the head guy they were negotiating with so now they can say once again they have no-one to negotiate with. What is "fair" about the usual asymmetry with Israel unloading huge amounts of ordinance into hospitals and then saying that it's the Palestinians' fault because the fighters hide in hospitals. That's the same sort of thing they said when they were firing on ambulances in Lebanon. It's the same kind of nonsense that almost killed Jessica Lynch when the Iraqis were trying to return her to American lines in an ambulance (and the Americans fired on the ambulance, turning it back).
Hamas has fired rockets in dribs and drabs over the year, it's true. But Israel has been firing across the borders at farmers trying to harvest their crops, firing on houses, demolishing houses, operating covertly inside Gaza assassinating people, patrolling the waters off Gaza and firing on fishing boats to prevent Gazans from fishing off their own shore and closing the borders to prevent supplies coming in, even going so far as to calculate the minimal nutritional need in Gaza so they can "put them on a diet". There isn't much "fair" going on here. Perhaps if the people were allowed to live decently and those who wanted to and still held deeds to properties that were stolen by Israel were allowed to go home or be compensated for those stolen properties the way Germany compensated Jews for the assets that they took - maybe we could start from there with fair and there would be far fewer rockets and bombs being exchanged.
 
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"We fully support the Palestinian's right to defend themselves from Israeli artillery landing on their homes and killing their people."

The day I hear the lying, murdering, hypocritical scumbag that is Barack Obama say that is the day he'll earn back some of the respect he's frittered away over the last four years.
 
Civilian infrastructure is being targeted in Gaza. Hamas has launched about 650 rockets with 250 intercepted while Israeli airstrikes have hit 1000 targets in Gaza including government buildings and media. The strike on media buildings was intentional.

According to Israeli Interior Minister Eli Yishai, "[t]he goal of the operation is to send Gaza back to the Middle Ages," .


So???

jus ad bellum

The German civilians making weapons for Hitler’s Wehrmacht were as much a part of the enemy’s war making potential as the soldier at the front. In a war, the health, comfort and morale of the civilian population is a legitimate target of war. This justified the blockades against the Confederacy and against Germany and German occupied Europe during both world wars, and it also justified the mass terror bombing raids of WW II in which the destruction of enemy morale was one of the stated aims.

If a war is to be fought, its aim should be to deliver a crushing blow to the enemy, that brings a permanent end to the war—like General Sherman’s "March to the sea" path of destruction through the Confederacy in 1864-65, or dropping nuclear bombs on Japan in WWII.
 
So???

jus ad bellum

The German civilians making weapons for Hitler’s Wehrmacht were as much a part of the enemy’s war making potential as the soldier at the front. In a war, the health, comfort and morale of the civilian population is a legitimate target of war. This justified the blockades against the Confederacy and against Germany and German occupied Europe during both world wars, and it also justified the mass terror bombing raids of WW II in which the destruction of enemy morale was one of the stated aims.
This was also Bin Laden's rationale for striking at the people who were instrumental in running the US empire - those who worked at the Pentagon and those who worked in the main financial district.
 
This was also Bin Laden's rationale for striking at the people who were instrumental in running the US empire - those who worked at the Pentagon and those who worked in the main financial district.
yes, it was

 
For me, the victims here are the civilians on either side and I blame the leadership on both sides. Both of them play deadly games with the lives of innocent people. I can't really say it's the Palestinians to blame or it's the Israelis to blame. But I can say that both sides will suffer for this and that I don't expect either side to win anything from this. Basically, it's just another sad story in the Middle East.

I Didn’t Come Back to Jerusalem To Be in a War

You want to hear about what it’s like here? It’s {bleep} sad. Everyone I know is sad. My kids don’t care who started it and the little boys in Issawiya, the Arab village I see out my window, don’t care much either. I haven’t met a single Israeli who is happy about this. They know this fixes nothing. The one thing we learned this week is how quickly humans can come to normalize anything. But the hopelessness seeps right into your bones as well.
 
yes, it was
And, similarly, your argument provides justification for Hamas rockets landing in civilian areas. You are basically saying that it is OK to kill civilians if it helps to win a war. That sort of argument makes it hard to claim a moral high ground. In fact, the argument leads simply to "might is right". The strong can do whatever they want to the weak. If the weak resist, they are evil and must be destroyed.
 
And, similarly, your argument provides justification for Hamas rockets landing in civilian areas. You are basically saying that it is OK to kill civilians if it helps to win a war. That sort of argument makes it hard to claim a moral high ground. In fact, the argument leads simply to "might is right". The strong can do whatever they want to the weak. If the weak resist, they are evil and must be destroyed.

Hamas has been shooting rockets into Israel for years. They have rejected all attempts at a brokered peace treaty, Hamas are the aggressors

"might is right" ==> Pax Romana , Pax Britannica
 
Hamas has been shooting rockets into Israel for years. They have rejected all attempts at a brokered peace treaty, Hamas are the aggressors

Because Israel did nothing to them? Why are all those people living in Gaza instead of the villages they came from? Why are they constantly fired on, arrested, assassinated? Why can't they safely bring in their crops without being fired on by Israeli soldiers? Why can't they fish off their own coast without getting fired on by Israeli boats? Israel has gained almost all of its territory by violence. Why is it wrong to fight back? Palestine existed before modern Israel. Doesn't Palestine have a right to exist? Doesn't Palestine have a right to defend itself? Almost the entire world sees this differently from the way you see it.
 
Erdogan calls Israel a "Terrorist State". Turkey is somewhat important these days as a route for gas and oil pipelines to Europe and as a foil against Assad. They are also not owned by the US. Egypt is not the US vassal that it once was, either, and is pursuing it's own interests vis a vis Gaza and Israel. Even Iraq tested it's independence a little by suggesting that oil be used as a lever to pressure Israel on Gaza, though it seems that the Iraq envoy was made to withdraw those comments.
 
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