It is getting worse in Lybia, Chavez supports Gadhafi

redrumloa

redrumloa

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Anti-aircraft weapons used on protestors.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/03/01/v ... dures.html

TRIPOLI, Libya -- In the middle of last week, anti-government protesters set out from the Tripoli district of Tajoura for a march to neighborhood's central square where they were quickly boxed in by six militia vehicles and came under gunfire so heavy it shook the earth and illuminated the night sky.

"They opened fire everywhere from anti-aircraft guns. We felt it was an earthquake," said one of the marchers. Another described barrages of gunfire that lit up the sky "like lightening." Those who managed to flee saw bodies of slain protesters dumped on the back of pickup trucks and taken away.

On other days, neighborhood residents said they were fired on by armed and masked men, saw their neighbors dragged from their homes at night and faced the anxiety of injured relatives disappearing from their hospital beds. Some said they are still searching for bodies of slain relatives to bury, but can't find them.
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Meanwhile Hugo Chavez blames the USA and backs "friend" Gadhafi.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/02/28/2 ... ibyas.html

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez said Monday that he won't condemn Libyan leader Moammar Gadhafi and he warned that the United States is preparing an invasion of the North African country to seize control of its oil reserves.

"We must be prudent. We know what our political line is: We don't support invasions, or massacres, or anything like that no matter who does it. A campaign of lies is being spun together regarding Libya," said Chavez, in a televised speech to a crowd of graduates who had just received diplomas from state universities.

"I'm not going to condemn him (Gadhafi)," he said. "I'd be a coward to condemn someone who has been my friend."

The U.S. government is behind the campaign to remove Gadhafi, he added.

"The United States has already said it's ready to invade Libya, don't you see? And almost all the countries of Europe are condemning Libya ... What do they want. They are rubbing their hands together. Oil is what's important to them," he said.
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Glaucus said:
Maybe Chavez will be next.
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The US has been gunning for him for years now. They failed to run a successful coup against Hugo but they'll try again. There's too much oil that the US companies can't fully control in Venezuela to let it go so easily.
 
redrumloa said:
Meanwhile Hugo Chavez blames the USA and backs "friend" Gadhafi.
"I'm not going to condemn him (Gadhafi)," he said. "I'd be a coward to condemn someone who has been my friend."
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Doesn't read like 'backing' to me.
Reads more like he knows Gaddafi is in the wrong but doesn't want to condem him.
 
I'd better start by stating that I'm not a fan of Ghaddafi. However, I have been having increasing qualms about the situation in Libya for several days now. I'm starting to see parallels between the situation in Libya and the situation in the Balkans back in the 1990's.

It's not a direct one to one by any means but it's starting to look like a excuse for a "humanitarian" military intervention. Serbs I work with are seeing the same thing. Part of that seems to be attributable to the fact that they apparently have a long standing business relationship. Further, Ghaddafi is opposed to the American principality of Kosovo and when the Kosovars sent a delegation out to Tripoli...
On arriving, Mr Gaddafi ordered them to sing and dance. When they ran out of tunes they were reprimanded by an aide. Eventually the good colonel told them they could stop, before dismissing them with words to the effect that he would never recognise Kosovo as long as their leaders remained American poodles. With that, the humiliated Kosovars were sent home.
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But back to the main thrust, there is increasing talk of military interference.
[youtube:3fb04p5m]F-Hg-xrCukI[/youtube:3fb04p5m]
The UK, US and France seem to be jockeying for position. If the US do impose a no-fly zone then there will be bombings by the US just as there were for 10 years in the Iraqi no-fly zone. The "no-fly zone" is a justification for US air dominance and that is always used to assist allies on the ground. Who would those allies be? A clue can be gleaned from this little tid-bit. The US just got the UN to indemnify the foreign mercenaries against war crimes.

US, UK and French "advisors" are apparently already in Libya and ...

the Russians say that the airstrikes didn't happen.
[youtube:3fb04p5m]TncgsS0FDWg[/youtube:3fb04p5m].
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
Glaucus said:
Maybe Chavez will be next.
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The US has been gunning for him for years now. They failed to run a successful coup against Hugo but they'll try again. There's too much oil that the US companies can't fully control in Venezuela to let it go so easily.
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Ya, but Chavez is in Putin's pocket so he's safe from US interference. However, there's lots of Venezuelans that would love to see him go. And I personally don't really care much for him either. His public bashings of George Bush were entertaining, but he's not much better really.
 
Glaucus said:
However, there's lots of Venezuelans that would love to see him go. And I personally don't really care much for him either. His public bashings of George Bush were entertaining, but he's not much better really.
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Rich white Venezuelans with big houses and servants ... yes, I know some and they would like him out so that they can go back to being rich without having to worry about their assets. The majority poor still like him.

As to Libya, it's really looking like the US doesn't care that much about appearing to be meddling. You may be right that NATO won't go in, but the US looks like they'll be fine going in with just the Brits.
 
Yeah, I know I've pointed this out before, several times, but I'm, going to say it again:

While Libya convulses, Iraqis also protest and get repressed. Meanwhile in Bahrain it looks like the protesters are headed for a world of hurt as Saudi tanks are shipped into the country.
Anyone want to place odds on whether we will see no-fly zones there?

(I was gonna say, anyone want to bet on whether US troops will land in those countries ... but they are already there.)
 
A quandary.

On the one hand, if the US does talk the UN into authorizing a no fly zone in Libya, then they are only doing it to control the oil fields, protect the rich upper class, and protect Israel. You know, you've always got to throw that in.

But on the other hand, if the US does nothing re: Gadhafi killing his own people, then the US is weak, and condones murder in the streets of the poor defenseless Libyans that just want a decent wage, freedom of speech, and an honest government.

Isn't that about your position?

But which one did you choose Fluffy?

I know, you'll choose after it's all over. You wouldn't want to embarrass yourself and choose too soon! :wink:
 
Lucky you, Fluffy. Obama made the decision for you, so now you can accuse him of wanting those poor Libyans to suffer some more under Gadhafi's fighter jets.

Now the only one left with egg on their face is the UK.
Did Cameron really think that Obama would come to the aid of an ally. What was he thinking?

My guess is that Obama won't commit until the death count has at least 2 commas in it, and maybe not then.
 
Fade said:
Lucky you, Fluffy. Obama made the decision for you, so now you can accuse him of wanting those poor Libyans to suffer some more under Gadhafi's fighter jets.
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The US is already in. They are supplying arms and money and training to the opposition forces. Did you miss that part?
 
The unrest in Bahrain keeps getting unrestier and the people want the king gone - he's even killed his own people to suppress the protests!! but the US is backing the royal family.

Meanwhile, look what's happening in Saudi Arabia. That's a royal family with full US backing and the personal friendship of the Bush family. Guess, if it comes down to a "gassing their own people" moment they'll still have the US as a friend.

In the end, your chances of regime change come down to whether your current government is US approved.
 
FluffyMcDeath said:
metalman said:
Libyans cry out for help, ... from George W. Bush
"Bring Bush! Make a no fly zone, bomb the planes," shouted soldier-turned-rebel Nasr Ali
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The story must have been updated, I couldn't find the quote in the linked article.
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Reuters published the "Bring Bush" quote in their original story "Gaddafi Bombs Oil Areas..."

Drudge ran the quote from the story as a headline, then Reuters erased the entire story, so it disappeared from yahoo news too.
Reuters original story said:
Muammar Gaddafi struck at rebel control of a key Libyan coastal road for a second day Thursday but received a warning he would be held to account at The Hague for suspected crimes by his security forces.

Venezuela said Gaddafi had agreed to its proposal for an international commission to negotiate an end to the turmoil in the world’s 12th largest oil exporting nation.

But a leader of the uprising against Gaddafi’s 41-year-old rule rejected any proposal for talks with the veteran leader…

…The rebels, armed with rocket launchers, anti-aircraft guns and tanks, called Wednesday for U.N.-backed air strikes on foreign mercenaries it said were fighting for Gaddafi.

Opposition activists called for a no-fly zone, echoing a demand by Libya’s deputy U.N. envoy, who now opposes Gaddafi.

“Bring Bush! Make a no fly zone, bomb the planes,” shouted soldier-turned-rebel Nasr Ali, referring to a no-fly zone imposed on Iraq in 1991 by then U.S. President George Bush.

Italy said it was preparing for a potential mass exodus of migrants escaping turmoil in North Africa after a rise in flows of illegal immigrants from Tunisia, the initial destination for tens of thousands who have fled violence in Libya.
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Now the story has been rewritten, with a new headline

Guess Gadhafi threatened to cancel his Reuters subscription ....
 
Interesting development:

Arab League backs no-fly zone in Libya
He said Arab League members have reservations about military intervention, but said all countries agreed that a no-fly zone must be imposed urgently to protect civilians.

"We hope the Libyan authorities will respect a no-fly decision," he said. "Be assured the Arab countries will not accept the intervention of the NATO coalition."
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